Downvoting due high pending rewards and a lack of engagement?
I've been look at a method to use the wisdom of the crowd and perceived lack of interest in highly rewarded content to help with judgement on downvotes...
not original source but no reference at IBM.com sooo 🤷
At the time of writing and according to my data source (UTC), there are still 8.5 hours left of August 28th 2019. And the total count of downvotes so far today has surpassed the total of any day in the past week. Even more noticeable is the combined weight of these downvotes:
| Date | Sum Count | Sum Weight | Full downvote equivalent |
|---|---|---|---|
| 01/08/2019 | 3242 | -9720452 | 972 |
| 02/08/2019 | 3102 | -8684254 | 868 |
| 03/08/2019 | 2134 | -6704068 | 670 |
| 04/08/2019 | 2529 | -8214811 | 821 |
| 05/08/2019 | 1939 | -6854359 | 685 |
| 06/08/2019 | 1641 | -4175303 | 418 |
| 07/08/2019 | 2452 | -5814644 | 581 |
| 08/08/2019 | 2449 | -7163653 | 716 |
| 09/08/2019 | 2812 | -10839089 | 1084 |
| 10/08/2019 | 2790 | -7484883 | 748 |
| 11/08/2019 | 2383 | -8832999 | 883 |
| 12/08/2019 | 1823 | -7206883 | 721 |
| 13/08/2019 | 4534 | -8250523 | 825 |
| 14/08/2019 | 4467 | -7209649 | 721 |
| 15/08/2019 | 3655 | -7869205 | 787 |
| 16/08/2019 | 5524 | -8317027 | 832 |
| 17/08/2019 | 3431 | -6248539 | 625 |
| 18/08/2019 | 3353 | -5962928 | 596 |
| 19/08/2019 | 2863 | -6441590 | 644 |
| 20/08/2019 | 3158 | -3636864 | 364 |
| 21/08/2019 | 2841 | -5670519 | 567 |
| 22/08/2019 | 2331 | -3657605 | 366 |
| 23/08/2019 | 2316 | -4737647 | 474 |
| 24/08/2019 | 2081 | -7145175 | 715 |
| 25/08/2019 | 2522 | -7312728 | 731 |
| 26/08/2019 | 2618 | -8319849 | 832 |
| 27/08/2019 | 2235 | -9110369 | 911 |
| 28/08/2019 | 2698 | -16409791 | 1641 |
With east coast America still enjoying their morning coffee, the total weight of downvotes today has surpassed any other day this month with many hours to spare.
#newsteem has spoken.
Prior to the hard fork, there has been discussion on chain (and likely plenty off-chain) regarding where downvotes would be placed - Trending (highly 'valued' content), plagiarism/abuse, and personal vendettas 🤦♂️ to name but a few.
There are mechanics in place for the second and I'm not really interested in the third, but what about Trending? Something has to be there - even if every post was zero'd there would still be a list of content (as far as I am aware). And so, how to decide what should be there or not?
As an aside, I just wanted to mention the possibility of having a collection of say 200 accounts (the downvote Oracle?), if say 20 of which downvoted a piece of content, then (all respected) bid-bot votes would be removed auto-magically.
If the terms and conditions of the bots stated this so their users were aware of the risk, and if 200 trusted community members could be found somehow, that could work?
Back to the content with high pending rewards, the wisdom of the crowd, and a piece of script.
(for the links to work you will need to add an @ next to the username of the account in the address bar. I have not included it to avoid notifications going out to these accounts 🐥)
| link | comments | pending | $_per_comment |
|---|---|---|---|
| link | 1 | 62.807 | 62.807 |
| link | 1 | 57.079 | 57.079 |
| link | 1 | 52.516 | 52.516 |
| link | 1 | 50.744 | 50.744 |
| link | 1 | 47.335 | 47.335 |
| link | 0 | 47.255 | 47.255 |
| link | 1 | 46.967 | 46.967 |
| link | 1 | 46.447 | 46.447 |
| link | 0 | 46.041 | 46.041 |
| link | 1 | 44.473 | 44.473 |
| link | 1 | 43.876 | 43.876 |
| link | 0 | 43.093 | 43.093 |
| link | 2 | 83.557 | 41.7785 |
| link | 1 | 41.55 | 41.55 |
| link | 0 | 41.496 | 41.496 |
| link | 1 | 41.342 | 41.342 |
| link | 0 | 41.138 | 41.138 |
| link | 1 | 40.627 | 40.627 |
| link | 1 | 39.565 | 39.565 |
| link | 0 | 38.545 | 38.545 |
| link | 1 | 38.077 | 38.077 |
| link | 1 | 37.144 | 37.144 |
| link | 0 | 37.089 | 37.089 |
| link | 1 | 34.862 | 34.862 |
| link | 1 | 34.52 | 34.52 |
| link | 2 | 66.232 | 33.116 |
| link | 1 | 32.64 | 32.64 |
| link | 1 | 32.096 | 32.096 |
| link | 1 | 31.835 | 31.835 |
| link | 0 | 31.767 | 31.767 |
The above is a list of the top 30 pieces of content that have 2 comments or less, are at least a day old, ordered by their pending payout divided by number of comments.
(0 and 1 comment give the same value to avoid divide by 0 (NAN) errors which isn't ideal)
So the content is at least 24 hours old, and should have had some eyes / views in Hot or Trending, but there is little to no engagement? Why?
- They 'botted' late (post miles from Trending by now)
- They are just starting out and don't have an audience yet
- The content isn't interesting
It is likely to be one of these 3 things and so a manual assessment should be made - just starting out and promoting a couple of posts is fair game?
I looked at the recent posting history of the account and also grouped accounts along with their comment count and pending payouts before deciding on which content I would remove a small allocation of the pending rewards from.
One account had over $350 in pending rewards and < 10 comments across 7 posts....
Is this a reasonable approach if taking the additional manual steps prior to action?
Or in other words, is highly rewarded content without engagement which is being consistently(persistently) produced by the same account worthy of a downvote?
Anyway, that's how I've chosen my 2.5 a day - today and yesterday. (Watch the engagement rise from those 25 rep friends 😀)
Cheers
Asher
Is it not possible to have good posts with high payouts and no comments? I think it's because it's a new thing, that's why there's a lot of downvotes now
Yes it is certainly possible, and that's a good reason to check the content before issuing a downvote.
Is it possible to have multiple pieces of content in trending with no comments? Less so without something being not quite right in my opinion.
Personally, I think we should look at Trending from the eyes of a visitor to the site. If they are looking at suspect content which has no commentary, how are they going to feel?
Wow look! I can and get paid this much and I don't even have to respond to anyone #oldsteemto respond someone needs to comment :D
Alright
I wonder if there is an existing solution for this problem already.........
No, I don't think that's possible, not organically anyway.
Sure, there could be 100% votes from for example @theycallmedan, @blocktrades and @smooth, leading to a high payout value without them commenting on it; in theory that is. But I highly doubt them to upvote content to which nobody else engages with either.
So no: high organic payouts without any engagement is extremely rare if not impossible.
Alright, thanks for your thoughts
Interesting idea, but I guess people will start creating artificial comments if it is getting realized ... :)
You've been delegating for almost a year to a solution which doesn't value artificially generated comment engagement...
Indeed. The phone a friend option is tougher to trace though :)
Yes that would be an easy way around it.
The code also found this @bukdb 🤦🏻♂️
Thanks for drilling down into the detail. Sometimes the sand on the beach can look different from a height. Your post helps those who stay away from the politics and technicalities.
Posted using Partiko Android
Thank you for the positive feedback :)
That was a great way to do it!
Cheers :D
Thanks for this list. I hit a few, will add the offenders to my rekt list.
The rekt list, nice.
Yeah I took the @ out of the URL so notifications wouldn't go out and so the links will need that adding.
Some of them could be one off willing to improve types, but there are some frequent low-ballers in there too!
you can add berniesanders to the list, he's still up to his old self up-voting shenanigans. Each of his posts aren't pulling in more than a few dollars each, but he does a bunch at once and uses his alt accounts to make free steem, while somehow going under people's radar.
It's not going under anybody's radar. People just don't want to get on his (s)hit list.
I wish bernie would curate more now that curators get 50%. Thankfully, his content is basically empty now as opposed to maximally repulsive as it has been in the past. Why not use his stake to support something that would help the price get up from its current rut?
yeah, he is a little short in the sanity department, but he's also a little limp these days to be fighting a multiprong battle of downvoters.
You have no SP little man. You’re weak as fuck.
You have no SP little man. You’re weak as fuck.
I hope the battle will pick up intensity in the near future. Anonymous voting accounts held by thousands of users with all their negative votes reserved for abusive whales and positive votes for curation would be cool. No targets for retaliation. Death by a thousand cuts to early miners who never invested a nickle looking to cash out as rapidly as possible by self-upvoting not only empty but downright repulsive content harmful to the platform to the extent of being newsworthy in the crypto space.
my thoughts exactly.
you can add berniesanders to the list, he's still up to his old self up-voting shenanigans. Each of his posts aren't pulling in more than a few dollars each, but he does a bunch at once and uses his alt accounts to make free steem, while somehow going under people's radar.
#NewSteem is good, but we need to send this message too, #ShutTheBotsDown
I'm not sure they will be shut down, but used more sparingly would be a good start.
Some of curation highlight post like the first link could take a hit, I really do not think they should bid bot them myself, however it is a method to get their list of what they felt was valuable content highlighted. Are these list worth the dollar amount they get? not sure myself. I have been put on a list or two a few times but have rarely commented back on the list. If they gave a real vote to my content then I would vote for them, but if it is just a look at my list help me make money off the backs of other peoples work then I completely by-pass it.
That being said they do provide a sort of service for people looking for content, so a couple bid bot buys and the rest all trails or manual votes, a very hard thing to see. I do not think automated down votes would work, there is just to much subjective stuff to evaluate.
That was bid on today too, day 6 of the post........
I know steemleo do not like daily curation ($) highlight or staking posts, they are easy to produce and from what I see do not earn much engagement.
Most of the ones I have ever viewed did not have a lot of comments, but they do get what look like a lot of real votes too, mostly trails I am sure. Until there is a click through feature we will never know if these curation, "Look at what I found" post are used or not. I know I have clicked a few highlighted post on various list, but not a lot, and I myself rarely vote on them because I try to vote on created content and assembling a list of links,..like you said...easy to do, so pretty low effort on their part.
Sorry for being a bit slow on this but do “downvote trails” exist yet?
Posted using Partiko iOS
Yeah https://steemit.com/@steemflagrewards
I think the code for using just the free 2.5 is still being worked on but they have been going a while and mainly target low grade posts that have been promoted.
Yeah that code will be useful to step up the reward redistribution activity. Cheers
Posted using Partiko iOS
Nice number, for the 1st day (and 7,5 hrs left). Looks promising.
Sure is, but will it last I wonder...
'There's enough to target', you wrote somewhere below. If everyone would (at least) use those 2,5 free downvotes every day IF needed, there should/might be a positive outcome longer term with several issues.
For sure. Plenty to go round.
I'll be checking if the DVs continue and trying to encourage that they do.
I think I will stay away from posting, because it's not my thing.. I'm not an author and I just can't take it when someone downvote my post. Playing steemmonsters is a better choice for me. The HF21 game only for the powerful and Strong based community members.
Post about Splinterlands and tag #battle #steemace #spt
You can earn Tribe tokens with very little risk of downvotes :)
https://www.splintertalk.io/steemmonsters/@abh12345.spt/hf21-quest-day