I second that! Have you listened to Jordan Peterson's lectures on the significance of the bible stories? I know you were't speaking religion here but it's so relevent imo to all the Marxist/Communist/Postmodern etc etc crap being spewed today. Whether one is atheist or not, Left, Right or any where inbetween, you can't deny the role Christianity has played in developing the West into the free societies we've become. When people argue the tired ole 'we stole the land from natives etc' or whatever popular argument used to discredit the West they're usually comparing these 'injustices' to their ideological nonexistant in real life utopias that DO NOT EXIST and never have! Anyone can do that...duh The Native Americans plundered, raped, enslaved, and destroyed eachother's lands/cultures as well before anyone set foot on their land so how they become so encapsulated as more pure or less sinister than us is beyond me. It was the barbarism of that era. What they refuse to accknowledge is that it was our Christian beliefs that allowed mankind to evolve away from that Worldwide Imperialism and into free capitalistic cultures which produced an end to that horrible but normalcy of behaviors.
The hard part is understanding the biological & psychological reasons 'why' this transformation was possible. And that imo is something we all better start looking at lest (as we are seeing today) we devolve back to the chaotic barbarism. We see it with blm/antifa/jihadists every day. Again, how they seem to view themselves as so much more pure or righteous is beyond me.
I'm not a religious person but I wouldn't say athiest . I had to think about what you said for a minute and I don't agree. I think all religions and all political affiliations have extremist who would chop anybody's head off that got in the way of their idea of a Utopia
Of course. You could say that about any group/organization on the planet. As well as the fact that you could find past practices of barbarism by Christians that would equal Muslim barbarism. My point was that the values coming from Christianity over time has allowed the West to move further past that barbarism than say Islam/Communism does. Why is that?.. is my question. It surely isn't because we are superior people. And for sure we still have a long way to go given the destruction (barbarism) those in power in the West still commit (war, destabilization of Nations, manipulation of cultures, raping of natural resources etc) I by no means delude myself into thinking the West guilt free at all. Although I believe the West's establishment leadership, rather than our population itself, to be the bigger culprits.
So why is that? Why is it that a once freer Middle East has degenerated while Countries like America continued to develop, evolve and prosper? It can't all be blamed on Western 'Imperislism' keeping others down while propping ourselves up. That is such a false premise (although there is some truth of that present). And why is it that we now seem to be following the Middle East's lead and degenerating ourselves? We will be no better than Communist China or the Middle East if we continue this current political climate and erasure of Christian heritage. Imo it has everything to do with the archetypal truths that are found in the biblical stories. That we refuse to understand them..correction..seem to be more willing to dismiss religion as more of the problem rather than to even try to comprehend that maybe the wisdom contained in these stories could possibly the the solution... that imo is our failure and what's leading to our decline. I'm talking about the macro & massive corruption. Chaos (violent protests & lawlessness). The pulling of the slats out from under the foundations that made our progress possible.
I believe it has everything to do with losing sight and not understanding what it is about Christianity and it's ability to allow for questioning truth that enabled us to progress in the first place. And that is the value I see that Jordan Peterson gives in his lectures. The ability to for once understand in a new way 'scientifically' regarding our current understanding of human nature and biology, 'how' significant the role of Christianity is/was in producing 'individual' freedoms as opposed to central control which in turn creates more peace and less barbarism.
My point is that the West (and even parts of the Middle East at one point) became more civilized & free 'because of' that individual freedom. The Middle East gaining their freedom by decentralizing their governments from Islam. The U.S. by embracing the morals of ours. Does that make sense? It might not unless you first listen to his lectures.
Oh boy dont get me started on that one...lol Ottoman Empire anyone? Why start with 1959? We could go back way farther than that to see who angered who ya know?...;)
After ww2 America realized the middle East was the most strategically important area in the world. Fast forward to now we import their heroin and oil. A few soldiers have told me they guarded poppy fields for most of their deployment.
I know I heard about that. There is so much corruption going on that it boggles the mind. But is America's any dirtier than the Middle East's? You canxt just start with 1959 and empathize with why terrorists do what they do ya know? The Middle East wouldn't even be in the situation they are today had it not been for 'their' ancestor's Caliphate and conquering of Europe! As well as their neandrothol religious practices. You have to hold them responsible for their actions while touting the West's. It alway amazes me how their roles are always diminished while ours are pronounced.
Where is the solidarity to Palistinians among the Arab Nations? Do 'any' of them help that population flourish? Hell no! They 'use' them as an excuse to deny Israel's right to existence yet do absolutely nothing in the way of helping them to produce prosperity on the land they happen occupy in the interim whether 'fair' or not.
I second that! Have you listened to Jordan Peterson's lectures on the significance of the bible stories? I know you were't speaking religion here but it's so relevent imo to all the Marxist/Communist/Postmodern etc etc crap being spewed today. Whether one is atheist or not, Left, Right or any where inbetween, you can't deny the role Christianity has played in developing the West into the free societies we've become. When people argue the tired ole 'we stole the land from natives etc' or whatever popular argument used to discredit the West they're usually comparing these 'injustices' to their ideological nonexistant in real life utopias that DO NOT EXIST and never have! Anyone can do that...duh The Native Americans plundered, raped, enslaved, and destroyed eachother's lands/cultures as well before anyone set foot on their land so how they become so encapsulated as more pure or less sinister than us is beyond me. It was the barbarism of that era. What they refuse to accknowledge is that it was our Christian beliefs that allowed mankind to evolve away from that Worldwide Imperialism and into free capitalistic cultures which produced an end to that horrible but normalcy of behaviors.
The hard part is understanding the biological & psychological reasons 'why' this transformation was possible. And that imo is something we all better start looking at lest (as we are seeing today) we devolve back to the chaotic barbarism. We see it with blm/antifa/jihadists every day. Again, how they seem to view themselves as so much more pure or righteous is beyond me.
I'm not a religious person but I wouldn't say athiest . I had to think about what you said for a minute and I don't agree. I think all religions and all political affiliations have extremist who would chop anybody's head off that got in the way of their idea of a Utopia
Of course. You could say that about any group/organization on the planet. As well as the fact that you could find past practices of barbarism by Christians that would equal Muslim barbarism. My point was that the values coming from Christianity over time has allowed the West to move further past that barbarism than say Islam/Communism does. Why is that?.. is my question. It surely isn't because we are superior people. And for sure we still have a long way to go given the destruction (barbarism) those in power in the West still commit (war, destabilization of Nations, manipulation of cultures, raping of natural resources etc) I by no means delude myself into thinking the West guilt free at all. Although I believe the West's establishment leadership, rather than our population itself, to be the bigger culprits.
So why is that? Why is it that a once freer Middle East has degenerated while Countries like America continued to develop, evolve and prosper? It can't all be blamed on Western 'Imperislism' keeping others down while propping ourselves up. That is such a false premise (although there is some truth of that present). And why is it that we now seem to be following the Middle East's lead and degenerating ourselves? We will be no better than Communist China or the Middle East if we continue this current political climate and erasure of Christian heritage. Imo it has everything to do with the archetypal truths that are found in the biblical stories. That we refuse to understand them..correction..seem to be more willing to dismiss religion as more of the problem rather than to even try to comprehend that maybe the wisdom contained in these stories could possibly the the solution... that imo is our failure and what's leading to our decline. I'm talking about the macro & massive corruption. Chaos (violent protests & lawlessness). The pulling of the slats out from under the foundations that made our progress possible.
I believe it has everything to do with losing sight and not understanding what it is about Christianity and it's ability to allow for questioning truth that enabled us to progress in the first place. And that is the value I see that Jordan Peterson gives in his lectures. The ability to for once understand in a new way 'scientifically' regarding our current understanding of human nature and biology, 'how' significant the role of Christianity is/was in producing 'individual' freedoms as opposed to central control which in turn creates more peace and less barbarism.
My point is that the West (and even parts of the Middle East at one point) became more civilized & free 'because of' that individual freedom. The Middle East gaining their freedom by decentralizing their governments from Islam. The U.S. by embracing the morals of ours. Does that make sense? It might not unless you first listen to his lectures.
I'll look into him. America has been in the middle East since 1959 just destroying everything. I kinda understand their anger.
Oh boy dont get me started on that one...lol Ottoman Empire anyone? Why start with 1959? We could go back way farther than that to see who angered who ya know?...;)
After ww2 America realized the middle East was the most strategically important area in the world. Fast forward to now we import their heroin and oil. A few soldiers have told me they guarded poppy fields for most of their deployment.
I know I heard about that. There is so much corruption going on that it boggles the mind. But is America's any dirtier than the Middle East's? You canxt just start with 1959 and empathize with why terrorists do what they do ya know? The Middle East wouldn't even be in the situation they are today had it not been for 'their' ancestor's Caliphate and conquering of Europe! As well as their neandrothol religious practices. You have to hold them responsible for their actions while touting the West's. It alway amazes me how their roles are always diminished while ours are pronounced.
Where is the solidarity to Palistinians among the Arab Nations? Do 'any' of them help that population flourish? Hell no! They 'use' them as an excuse to deny Israel's right to existence yet do absolutely nothing in the way of helping them to produce prosperity on the land they happen occupy in the interim whether 'fair' or not.
I wouldn't call one any better than the other government is evil by nature.
LOL... that really did make me laugh and giggle. I even snorted a bit too.
I could not agree more! Libertarian/veteran till I die!
I TOTALLY agree with you! Doesn't really make much difference anyway...