Feeling Blue

in #steem6 years ago

There are lots of interesting posts at the moment in regards to price. Some are saying to hold, some lamenting not selling and some are saying that it is your own fault if you didn't sell. It is a funny thing to say really for the ones that held essentially kept the price up for the ones to sell. If the holders decided to sell first, the price would have collapsed earlier. In some ways, it is a game of reverse chicken with each trying to sell before the next.

But, more so than this, there are a lot of posts about the feelings about the price and how people are dealing with it. There are the keep your chin up types and the sky is falling types. For the most part though, the holders are the ones with a more positive attitude than the sellers. This makes sense because the holders are obviously in a position that they want the price to go back up but the sellers want it to go down so perhaps they can buy back in or say, "lucky I sold". I wonder how many of the sellers still have some fiat or BTC to buy back in and how many improved their life but are essentially in the same position they were before coming to Steem.

The hope for most people here is that Steem is going to improve their lives somehow, whether it be financially, socially or perhaps for skill development. The financial side likely is the majority position though. The problem is that there is the immediate financial gains and the long term financial gains and these two positions are generally in some conflict with each other, as to have one is to forgo the other to some degree. Many will take a balanced approach to this and take a percentage for now and keep a percentage for later but there are also many who take all or, save all. Sell or Hold.

I read a post from a long time user and seller yesterday that was talking about past circle jerks and manual curation and how they have been consistently involved in the platform but haven't got the support of others. This is also probably why they feel disenfranchised enough to sell, I don't know though. What is interesting is that when looking at the numbers, there is a clear reason why in my opinion.

Besides engagement levels being low in this case, having SP to actually upvote and add value has its own effects. Obviously, people who are looking to grow and have a better financial position in some way are going to be attracted to SP which means the accounts with SP are likely to get targeted more than those without. But, more importantly perhaps is that those with SP feel a much stronger bond to the platform in general as they have more to lose if the platform fails. This doesn't require SP of course but, it helps.

For me personally, it is kind of frustrating that people who say they care about the platform, complain about bidbots and lack of value being given to their posts, are also the ones who had an opportunity to keep some Steem powered up and actually manually curate and distribute to other users. If they see this as important, why didn't they go 50/50 and keep half the Steem they earned on the platform to help reward users like themselves?

But, these people are also the ones who are often the most concerned about the current prices which means that even though they sold at highs while others held, they didn't necessarily invest it well enough to cover their lives past that point. Maybe they assumed that the SP would keep rolling in regardless of how they behaved. Hard to say.

But, this is a game of sorts and people talk about game theory. If we assume that everyone is personally incentivized to do what is right for them, there is likely to be a conflict between the holders and the sellers and those who are sellers who want to keep earning.

For example, if a holder wants the price to go up, they are likely going to support the content and people who they feel are going to help that happen. They are going to encourage more holding and, content that is going to encourage more people behaving in ways that they feel will increase price. If they see someone who has powered everything down now complaining about lack of support, they are less likely to support that person because, they don't necessarily see it as in their best interest to do so.

If for example one believes that a healthy Steem ecosystem requires a decently sized middle class of manual curators, then that is what they are likely going to try to build. From this position, why would one support an account who could have been in able to be in that middle class but, chose to sell virtually everything they earned? Why would they support someone who spreads sky is falling information that encourages selling when they want the opposite? There is a track record effect here that says, this person is only here to earn and sell.

Yesterday I earned 6 SP from curation. Not a great deal by any measure but one that is possible because of the SP in my wallet and some from a paid delegation. In order to do this, in the last week I have delivered 500+ votes on posts and comments. The majority of my votes goes on comments on my own posts as I see it as a good way to encourage and reward quality comments and distribute some Steem for doing so. The cost to me to get that 6 Steem is holding.

Let's say that instead I sold 10,000 Steem in December at 6 dollars for 60,000 dollars and then bought back today at 80 cents.... Silly me. But, in that time between, I have still been earning something and hopefully building the community a little along the way. If I had sold and held for 8 months, would people be visiting my account? Would those who think long term trust I was going to buy back? There doesn't seem to be much buying back on Steem at the moment from those who sold otherwise the price would be increasing, not sliding further. I haven't earned anywhere near what I would have been able to buy if I had sold and held but, I have been here.

As said, this is a game and this is part of the game. From a personal financial perspective I played poorly but, from a community financial perspective I may have played well. At least, some people other than myself have benefited from my wallet somewhat too. There are many way to play this game and I play the way I do in the hope that one day, my wallet will be worth something a lot more than currently and, those around me have wallets worth something also so they can improve their lives to a greater degree than those who go hand to mouth.

I have trouble understanding all aspects of this game though as it is quite complicated but, I do my best to try and build a view of the game world that helps me achieve my goals and as I see it, for me to achieve those goals, I have to help others achieve theirs to some degree which requires some reciprocity. Producing good content isn't enough, nor is only pointing out the problems of a broken system, even if correct. Because of the way the game works, SP is generally required to make a difference, not just words. I haven't been here from the start but I am pretty sure that from the start it was pretty clearly stated that Steem Power is your influence.

These are two excerpts from the white paper on Steem Power:

There is significant value to having long-term commitment, because it enables communities to make long term plans. Long-term commitment of stakeholders also causes them to vote for long-term growth rather than short-term pumps.

When users vote on content, their influence over the distribution of the rewards pool is directly proportional to the amount of SP that they have. Users with more SP have more influence on the distribution of rewards. This means that SP is an access token that grants its holders exclusive powers within the Steem platform.

I haven't read most of the white paper to be honest but, there is a lot in there. What I like from the first paragraph is:

having long-term commitment, because it enables communities to make long term plans.

This is the long view, one where it is possible to build an ecosystem that is potentially healthy and diverse enough to be able to support a large amount of people across a wide range of content groups. If this happens, the price of Steem will raise significantly.

From the second paragraph:

this means that SP is an access token that grants its holders exclusive powers within the Steem platform.

Exclusive powers means having more opportunity than those with less. Is this fair? Some say yes, some say no but with all things remaining equal, lets say there are two accounts of me. One acts the way I do, the other has sold everything and hold s virtually zero Steem Power. Both have taken an opportunity cost position that comes with risk. The holder me takes the long view risking immediate satisfaction for a potential future position, the seller me instant gratifies and risks the price going up in the future and not having Steem.

But, it is not so simple as there are many other forces at play including the sentiment of other players in the market and how each is likely to view holder or seller me. On top of this, there is the way the system works with vested interest having more pull on the rewards pool meaning, holder me has access to more than seller me which means holder me can use that draw to reward as he sees fit. Seller me has no such capacity and to earn must rely on people like holder me to see value in each of their posts. As the system develops, holder me gets spread ever more thinly since there aren't many similar and, support to individual posts will drop but, support of individuals or projects may increase.

No matter how you look at it or what people say, everyone here has an agenda to satisfy their personal needs to some degree at least. There are vast differences in needs however and even more variation in the ways people go about satisfying them. This is a very big game of Monopoly with a great deal more complexity as it not only includes real world lives, it is made up of a diverse set of people with a massive variety of backgrounds, skills and perspectives on how to play the game.

Each does their best with what they know in the moment, some look to learn more, some look longingly to the past, some wish they had sold, some wish they had bought, some shitpost, some write tomes, some buy votes others sell, some have a great deal of SP and some none, some get it given to them for free, some pay for it. There are many positions taken and each affects other positions in some way and in many cases, it doesn't feel fair but, this is the game, we each work with what resources we have and while some build so they have more resources, others sell so they have fewer chips to play with.

The Steem itself doesn't care how it is used though, it is just a dumb tool. What matters is how users utilize it to satisfy their needs and unfortunately, some use it better than others, some have regrets about how they have used theirs and, some are happy so far but may be complaining tomorrow. At the end of the day, the use your stake as you see fit is a core part of the game and just like no decision is a decision, selling stake is too. If one feels that selling is the best use for their stake, that is their decision to make but with each decision, there is a set of consequences that must be lived with, even though they may be unforeseen, unintended and unwanted.

We all only have one direction to go in this life though and, it isn't backwards. The way we currently feel doesn't have to be the way we always feel and the way we act, doesn't have to be the way we always act. The system is continually changing, evolving and growing and, the game is always on.

I don't write these pieces for an audience even though some people might find value in it somewhere. It is for me to build a better picture of the system that works for me. It is so I can evaluate positions and think about how I might change my position to better meet my goals and adjust my behavior to become a better player in the future. Each time I look at it though and from each perspective, in the long term view, the community is at the core and it is full of individuals all wanting something different. For them to be able to have access to what they want requires people to build it and, support it. On this platform, that generally requires a bit of Steem. A cost of selling can mean not having any bricks left to build with.

Anyway, time to get on with the day.

Taraz
[ a Steem original ]

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Well said.

I for one have benefited from your long term approach, and have taken this view from the start also.

SP is influence, nice to have when casting votes, and nice for people to see when checking up on who to support. Each person can do as they wish but as you say, it's a shame the middle class isn't larger due to the short term view of some accounts that could have been a part of this group.

I'd like to think that if I'd powered down a large chunk at the right time, i'd be buying back in around now. But how would my supporters have felt and feel about that now - could I 'earn' the trust back again, I'm not sure.

But you don't owe anything to your supporters, it's not football. People read you because you write interesting and readable stuff primarily, the value of your upvote is of no importance. If you go on a crap streak, I won't read what you write, but will keep checking for you writing things I do like to read.
You have to do what works for you, this is a community of mainly strangers with a common goal, to learn and to make a few quid. No one's going to hate you if you need to sell, and don't allow people to judge. These type of people are not people you need in any case.
Meanwhile, I HAVE to support Leeds and have done through the worst times...but like Steem, things are going to come good again ;-)

Firstly, commiserations for the requirement to support Leeds, that must be tough 😁

I think the need to sell is different from selling for profit, and then expecting to receive the same support as previously. Selling also comes with a lack of activity at times, and so the autovotes will be moved to where they can earn curation. I can name a couple of large accounts that have sold out, and are now back but without anything close to the previous support.

If my stake went down 90%, I would not expect the same support as I get now.

Well I'd still love ya...:-)
8 or 9 years ago, Yeovil away on a tuesday night...thats tough lol

😁

Midweek games at the other end of the country - away fans deserve respect for making those. What was it, 0-0?

But how would my supporters have felt and feel about that now - could I 'earn' the trust back again, I'm not sure.

This is an interesting question I think. For some, they seem to be able to get away with it but I assume there are relationship circles that allow that. For me, I don't think I would be able to have built that well or been able to affect much. Not that I can affect much but perhaps a few people could have better futures having come across a post or two of mine.

Yes I suppose it depends on the circles. Perhaps if they returned with 5x as much SP, folks would have an easier time 'forgiving' :)

I don't understand the negativity over the price. Crypto goes up and down. Always has, always will.

If anything, the low price is a blessing because if there is one problem with Steemit, it's the inital distribution.

That one thing has plagued every aspect of the platform, and no matter how many times the code gets changed, that issue still stands.

It's not even that the whales are bad people. They just act in a manner that makes them the most profits.

A price crash is the one thing that can help with distribution.

Don't like how things are? Buy STEEM and gain influence.

Want to downvote posts promoted by bid bots? buy STEEM and gain influence.

Want to to reward your favorite content creators? Buy STEEM and gain influence.

That's how the game was designed. And now the negative people finally have a chance to gain the influence they feel they've lacked.

So, why so sad?

Yep, that is right. Price being low gives people opportunity that wouldn't have it as it lowers the barriers to entry. Essentially, more people could be buying now and increasing their influence but, they are waiting to see if it will recover, as if they are expecting it won't.

I wasn't here for the initial distribution as I only came at the start of 2017 when price was already low. If I had known anything about anything at that time I would have bought at least something but I was beginner and had no idea about crypto and knew no one who knew anything.

The low price at that time hurt distribution to some extent too because of the various circles that had already earned their stake and were now voting each other up to trending with 7 cent steem accumulating in the payouts.

I guess that in time, a few more ups and downs and the distribution will start to look a little healthier.

Yeah. A lot of the mistakes were made early on, and the results of those can be seen to this day. And they won't go away until people man up and buy STEEM.

Or accept things as they are. Either or.

But the low price also earns posters more STEEM Power, which is a positive.

People should remember that the mechanisms of the site are still the same, no matter the price. The price only really matters if you cash out. If you don't, it doesn't matter.

The amount of STEEM allocated to your post is still the same - even if the $ amount is lower.

People should remember that the mechanisms of the site are still the same, no matter the price. The price only really matters if you cash out. If you don't, it doesn't matter.

The amount of STEEM allocated to your post is still the same - even if the $ amount is lower.

I think a lot of people don't fully understand how the payments work here but, as we can see from the distribution, many are selling out anyway. For some who are here long term, this is where they will look back to and be thankful for what they earned and held or, what they sacrificed to buy-in with.

I've never supported vilifying people who sell their STEEM. People have bills to pay and food to buy. It's a shitty economy out there these days. A lot of people are struggling.

You gotta do what you gotta do to survive.

No problem with it, it is one of the pathways people choose and for some, I completely understand their reasoning considering their life positions. It has come very close a couple of times where I have had to sell but I am yet to.

The reason I joined was to pay for the 700€ a month baby formula that my daughter needed and wasn't covered by either Kela or our insurance for her. It was a last ditch hail Mary of sorts but, earning a couple euros a week here didn't really cut it but I enjoyed writing so kept going and learning about what was going on. All those tiny amount on posts added up but at that time, I had no idea what I held.

If my daughter needed it, I would power everything down and sell at these prices too.

Your daughter's baby formula is 700€ a month? Jesus. How is that a thing? And of course. Anything for our children.

nonsense hey? It was some special amino acid-based formula because of her allergies. ~60 a can/every 2-3 days. It wasn't covered unless they put her through 2 months of testing other formulas at the hospital, not even with a prescription from her specialist.

That is a great post and well written, objectively and without judgment. As alwayswithSteem, the game you play is intrinsically linked into your personal context. Many came here to try and earn a little money to improve their lot, others as a long term investment.
The greatest benefit that this community has is tobeable toadapt to each persons individual circumstances whilst at the same time requiring hard work from anyone playing to be successful.
Steemit is gloriously diverse and means a million different things to a million different people. There is no right or wrong way to play, just work hard!

Steemit is gloriously diverse and means a million different things to a million different people. There is no right or wrong way to play, just work hard!

THis is good advice in my opinion. Yep, it definitely has many paths to choose an adventure from. Some lead to a quick death, some are treacherous, some are a little more fun. the other good part is, one isn't tied to only one path at any one time as there are so many platforms and interfaces to trial.

"each trying to sell before the next"

The essence of a bear market. It feeds on itself.

"From a personal financial perspective I played poorly"

That's debatable. It's like the parable of the house. Playing Steem like a market is like building a house on sand. It will eventually crumble in the long term. I guess that's your point. :)

That's debatable. It's like the parable of the house. Playing Steem like a market is like building a house on sand. It will eventually crumble in the long term. I guess that's your point. :)

Poorly for a short term view, okay for a long. But, if I had sold and bought back in I would have significantly more steem to support others but, what kind of support from others? It is hard to say but, I did take some liquids and did invest into other things which means, I can still perhaps get some more Steem with a little luck.

With hindsight, it's easy to know what the market did, but is it really possible to know in advance?

Traders use technical analysis, jump in and out if markets every day, and some do well, others get burned. It is a very stressful life, and half your life will be burned watching hourly movements. Picking something you believe in, and sticking with it can be just as successful, without the daily stress. :-o

Basically people are on here because you can earn money blogging, if money wasn't the objective for the majority they'd be on a number of other blogs sites, some way more participatory. This site if different then most other blogs as it requires a lot more thought and preparation to post articles, these people who have pulled their money out didn't do that just so they could be a "community" they did it because it paid then for the effort. If I had 20, 30, 40 or more thousands I'd pulled it out to, set it aside and bought back in when it started going back up and reached the point I pulled it out at. I wouldn't hold it against anyone for doing such, they have no obligation to anyone other then themselves and what they put into it. What bothers me more is these so called "internet stars" who get large delegations, pull out hundreds of dollars and don't respond to "their community", which basically consist of regulars here on Steemit who pop in and out to make comments on their postings, meaning they aren't even the draw of new customers to Steemit that was anticipated.

What bothers me more is these so called "internet stars" who get large delegations, pull out hundreds of dollars and don't respond to "their community", which basically consist of regulars here on Steemit who pop in and out to make comments on their postings, meaning they aren't even the draw of new customers to Steemit that was anticipated.

There are quite a few of these who have milked the system and still do in various ways which is likely why more goes to projects than individuals these days.

I agree if you had sold in December and bought back now it would have done more damage than good. Yes you would have made more money but probably not that much more if you powered up over that period and had grown your account. The followers you have gained are a better investment than the money as without them you have nothing.

How much have I sold in the past few weeks? ZERO. 👌

When you invest in crypto like Steem, use a portion of your portfolio that you wouldn't mind losing. It doesn't matter whether the numbers go 10% down or 25% down. Because the numbers will be back up again shortly. Just checked Ethereum and it was up 17% in the past 24h. 🚀✅

I don't really understand why some people get panicked during the dips. It's probably because they invested money they shouldn't have in the first place.

If they see someone who has powered everything down now complaining about lack of support, they are less likely to support that person because, they don't necessarily see it as in their best interest to do so.

Isn't that just another reason to suppose that content hardly enters into the equation? My own rough-and-ready experiments show that, after vote buying, the size of ones wallet is the most important predictor of the size of upvotes one gets, much more so than the content one posts, when perhaps in a properly functioning Steemit this shouldn't be the case?

Anyway, this behaviour may be natural and human and all that, but it is counterproductive if you want a change in distribution, as it is one of the many mechanisms here where making money with money trumps making money with content.