Debate Forum - Week 5 - Indigenous Reconciliation
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Week 5 debate topic - Indigenous Reconciliation
Over the past few years the Federal Government in Canada has made several apologies to the indigenous peoples in regards to their treatment in the past and especially for the residential school system. However, actions and behaviours continue to push forward a program of cultural assimilation which was viewed by Supreme Court Chief Justice as cultural genocide.
This weeks Debate Forum question:
If you were Prime Minister or President of your region, how would you approach reconciling your relationship as representative of your country with the indigenous peoples?
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Being a Prime Minister or President is, in itself, a violent, abusive, coercive, genocidal and colonial role to play. If I was in that role, my job would be to put myself out of work and dismantle the state. The level of reconciliation that we are looking for cannot happen while the state exists. It is impossible for the state to reconcile their relationship because they are founded on violence, coercion and ownership of land. As THE land owner, how can people have a relationship with the land? They cannot. So the state must step aside so that the people can return to the land without any land lord or intermediary getting in the way of those relationships. By ending the violence and separating, that allows the healing to take place. Once the healing has occurred and firm boundaries are in place, then reconciliation can start - as equals - without state governance. That is, in my view, the only way we are going to reconcile the relationships that have been damaged all these years. We have a long way to go.
Your view is really a new dimension to the whole thing, you will agree with me that the present arrangement is favouring some people and these people are mostly the elites. Will they support this arrangement whole heatedly? Don't you think they will instigate the people against your leadership?
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They would, that is why I choose NOT to change the system from within, but instead to confront it from the outside. To lead by example rather than engage in coercion or force. To influence people to find a peaceful way to self-govern and work towards being independent and free rather than being feudal slaves to the state.
You really have a noble objective, I pray the opportunity comes your way.
If am made the president of my country today I will among other issues make sure that I made everyone especially indigenous people to see themselves as stakeholders in the development of our nation. Although my country is currently divided along ethnic and religious lines but if given the opportunity to serve today, I will first and foremost bring ten leaders of each ethnic group under my cabinet and ask each of them to establish an office where their kinsman can easily approach them and drop their challenges from where it will get to the government. Job creation will also be a tool to be deployed in tackling ethnic challenges as I will make ethnic group leaders responsible for the welfare of their people. To encourage togetherness, I will Institute sports competitions and the ethnic groups and make our educational system to teach the cultures and languages of other ethnic group to children from basic to post secondary schools.
I'm curious if there is a huge issue with people being dependent upon your government and if, as president, you would focus on teaching people how to be independent, ensuring that they have land, tools, skills and resources to be independent and shrink your government to accommodate your population not really needing you any more. Is this a viable strategy to also help reduce or eliminate cultural and ethnic divides within your country as the violent coercion of the state would be significantly reduced as a result?
Yes so much dependence on government to provide everything is one major issue. If given the opportunity, youths will be made to acquire skills that will make them self dependent. It's said that an idle mind is the devil's workshop.
Most criminal activities that are done under ethnicity when properly viewed are aimed at satisfying one or two individuals needs of the criminals which clearly shows that no ethnic group teams up against another all things being equal.
To me, once most people especially youths are gainfully engaged, the ethnic divides will naturally die.
Ooh, a topic near and dear to my heart. Thank you all for the thoughtful replies so far!
I have many of the same views and opinions of those who have posted before me.
Still, I'm going to go out on a limb and assert my belief that if I were to become Prime Minister in the here and now, that there is little that I could do to truly reconcile the atrocities the first nations and their descendants experienced, and still live with to this day. It spans globally, in all pockets of society and our hearts. From what I see, I'm not sure if there is anyone here alive now who is not a victim of colonization.
The belief that reconciliation will come through government authority, well, I disagree.
To put that kind of power in one person's, or even the hands of many, is an outright lie. Reconciliation is a dream when the poorest people in the nation live on reservations, or cast out in the streets. Reconciliation is a dream while there are still borders to cross, where the falsity of land ownership lives on. Reconciliation is a dream while animals, including humans of all heritage, are traded, bought, and fenced in to live out a life that is not truly their own. Reconciliation is a dream if fiat currency rules over life itself, as the lands and waters are poisoned, and the average household continues down their ignorant path of destruction of self and others.
Reconciliation is impossible if the beings in the here and now continue to believe the lies of "mine and yours".
Reconciliation begins when old ranchers donate their lands for land preservation and the reclamation of tradition and heritage that aligns with the flow of nature.
Reconciliation begins we tear down the fence between us and our neighbors, and build a picnic table out of the wood.
Reconciliation begins when we plant gardens to feed ourselves, and to whoever needs.
Reconciliation begins when we truly, authentically have the freedom to choose our pathways to knowing Creator.
Reconciliation begins when we truly listen to the story of others, without contributing guilt, personal desire, or a need to fix anything.
Reconciliation begins when a human being comes to the full realization that Unci Maka is the true one home to all life on earth.
Reconciliation begins when we don't wait for any right moment to express our love and solidarity for another being.
Reconciliation begins when we gather as one nation.
How many other ways can we begin reconciliation in our own communities? How many can you think of?
The short of it: Don't wait for a prime minister or a president to change. Stop creating figments of leadership. Stop believing in centralized government. Start creating communities that include, and encompass, all of Life's beings right now, where you are. Extend your hands to those that need it. Tear down your f*cking fence already.
It really is so simple, and we all have to believe it. We all have to decide to heal our traumas so we can stop hurting Life. It doesn't matter if a prime minister donates land to a tribe, or says sorry. It doesn't matter if the core of the issue doesn't change.
As a white male living in Australia I really do struggle with cognitive dissonance in relation to the acknowledgement, ongoing treatment , and integration of the indigenous people (I even had to go back and change my words from our indigenous people).
The British where so lazy and disinterested by the time they colonised Australia that they simply called the local aboriginal people aborigine and I have personal met a man from our Northern Territory with no birth certificate but rather a Government issued classification of Flora and Forna.
If I where Prime Minister I would say that at least the first baby steps had been taken we have had out Eddy Marbo succeed in gaining native land rites, we have had a largely insignificant gesture of a national sorry day in apology for the stolen generation.
As I said baby steps, hell the British didn't return Yagans head to the Noogar people until 1997 for those of you that don't know Yagan was a resistance leader killed in 1833.
My first action would be changing our day of national celebration Australia Day the 26th of Jan which celebrates the date of the landing of the First Fleet or as the Aborigines call it Invasion Day
I know it sounds like another token action but for many of the locals its a serious issue how do we ask these people to view themselves as part of this country yet every year ask them to participate in the celebration of the day they mark as the loss of their lands, the deaths of their family, and the disintegration of their culture.
So what day to choose how about they day after colonised Australia voted its self into being a country the 2nd of January.
Thats step one there are 10 others but I don't want to spam you page with one ridiculously long post
It's a debate. I encourage ridiculously long posts! lol I think many people struggle with cognitive dissonance as you so bravely admitted. How do you propose that we help people deal with this emotional barrier so that we can all at least recognize the genocide that took place? After all, until we recognize the violence, we will not be able to then change behaviours so that we can reconcile. So what I hear from you is the suggestion that we deal with these emotional and mental traumas and bias discrimination so that we can come to terms with the harms throughout history, change our ways, end the violence so that we can then approach them in peace for meaningful reconciliation efforts.
If this is what you are saying, how do you propose that this process take place with a population of millions?
This is a really tricky topic because so many non-native and native alike are brainwashed into the fictional realm as though it were real. So many are so dependent on the state plagued by Stockholm Syndrom. It's a real jumble. I don't fully undersand how politics work but will use a utopian idea that Prime Minister has all authority. There would need to be mass treatment and actual education for the mixed up psycological peralysis the many people are in. I really believe this is the state for most people eventhough many are awakening. Not just native populations. To undo all the lies. Return authority back to the individuals. Teach them to honour care and respect all aspects of our environment. To reprogram from scarcity mindset to caring for future generations. I am not sure a four year term as PM would be long enough. People really need to understand what money is. And, learn how to govern themselves. Lots of learning. Reshaping of paradigms. Refocusing on the Spiritual connection and growth. Teach people to value and love themselves. To shift the imbedded evil ways and values among the people towards love, compassion, abondance and forgiveness. What a beautiful endeavor to consider. I pray for global and intergalactic peaceful revolution every day.
Sounds wonderful. I'm curious, as PM, how would you encourage this individual growth? You and I both know that we cannot force people to change, but rather can encourage and influence change instead. So would you use the coercive power of the state to facilitate this level of growth, education and change or would you find other creative ways to accommodate your objectives?
I'm also curious how you are going to deal with the individuals who are bias and discriminatory towards the indigenous and the greed of people who profit from the raping and pillaging of the land. These are powerful people and they will resist your program with violence. So how do you accommodate these individuals within your plan?
I would surround myself with many experts in the feilds of inspiring many community leader and really build communities and encourage participation in community gardens, animal care, various activities like community clean up, and building great playgrounds for children and adults. I would love to integrate childcare with elderly care. Create mentorship programs with the elderly. Support young families through capable retired folks. Change regular work week to 1-20 hours so people had more free time to heal, create and to just be. All schools would change in their philosophies. Rather than teach subordination to authority, start teaching awarness of personal power and relationship skills so people in all levels of education could have supported paradigm shift. People, with proper support and healing are inherantly good. The outliers would live in the fringe. All i can add for now! Great questions ❤
I am so glad you asked this question! I have been waiting to answer this all my life. ;-)
If I were Prime Minister or President of my region,
First, I would figure out how much land we robbed and stole from the indigenous people, and estimate how many indigenous people we killed and hurt.
Second, I would come out with a fair price for the lands and their casualties, then add interest to get a total amount.
Third, I would budget to pay them back in installments if I can't pay it all at the same time.
Finally, I would let indigenous people have their own autonomous government. They decide what they want to do with the debt we pay them back. They have my full support and protection. No questions asked. Period.
I agree in theory that would be right to the indigenous. I was thinking it through and decided that no one alive today that has not committed the atrocities should be made by force to pay for them. I don't think I have the wisdom to solve this problem. I guess if I were president I would have to immediately resign as a matter of principle.
And then what about people decended from colonists who through no fault of their own have also been subjected to the perpetual genocide of the state?
I guess before leaving office I would have to abolish and perma-ban banks at least.
Haha ... That's why I am neither a Prime Minister nor a President. The majority of voters wouldn't want to elect me.
But seriously, the price I paid for my land would have been higher if it were not robbed from the indigenous people in the first place.
What if land is actually not owned? You are still basing your choices on a colonial principle that land is a commodity to be bought or sold. Indigenous peoples view the land as something to be shared by all and that they are a part of the land. Nobody owns it. As a result, land ownership results in slavery as we are the land! So how would you reconcile that within your government since your power and authority is based on land ownership and occupation?
I don't think I can reconcile it today within the current government, which is base on a colonial principle. What I can do is to reconcile with the indigenous people as an individual. Treat them as equal, respect their culture, and be a good friend.
My approach as well! Bravo!
So, are you saying then, that you are able to put a price tag on the harm and that money would heal and remedy the relationship? I'm curious as to how you will convince or persuade your population to let go of their bias and discrimination against them as well as dealing with the fear they feel about the accumulation of wealth often held in land that may have been acquired as a result of genocide and theft. How would you reconcile those issues within your government?
You are right. Life loss and the harm done are priceless even though the government and the insurance company can put a price tag on it. I can never convince my people to let go of their lands they consider to be privately owned properties. If the indigenous people were to receive government lands, they could share among their own people and those who share the same belief.
The real reconciliation is at the individual level. It only happens when each of us can treat them as equal, respect their culture, and make real friends with them.
as the question asked I will think that I have a power in the government, and I have enough power to do anything! and everyone listen to me and do the things that I say, then :
I let indigenous people live free! I let them use any services that other people of the country can use them too! and I will ask their needs!! but I will act equal with indigenous and other people.
If they live in a bad situation, a place where there is not enough services for them while there are better ones in other cities, then my mostly recommended work to do will be helping indigenous to have all the goods and services.
if we want to believe in country mode, then all the people of that country must look at each other like they are all one family! one family with differences in their ideas, in their traditions, in their clothing and styles, but I will see them all equal! and I try to do the best for all of them.
well till this part I think I didn't missed anything :)
peace!
This 'country' that you speak of represents 500 years of genocide, theft, raping and pillaging. The land that was once theirs has been taken over and ravaged by greed in order to feed the consumerism of the people so that the goods and services you offer can be delivered. As leader of this country, how do you plan on reconciling the relationship when you continue to advocate the use of the land that these people view as being sacred? The water is polluted as is the air. The trees are being cut down and nothing is being treated as sacred. How do you propose to help your population to recognize the sacredness of life so that the indigenous peoples feel like they are being heard and respected?
@wwf but at the end I have to say, I don't believe in any governments, nobody care about people, and I can see people are talking about these holy things, holy places!?!?
for me all the world is the same place, all the skies are the same sky! all the humans are the same, but except criminals! I think there is no land for anybody! there is no owner!! we're all going to die after 80, 90, or 100 years!! its so childish to call a place for ourselves!
watch this video :
I got it now, you mean we have a country with a situation just like you described it, its all good, but In that position and with the power that I have I only can start communication with Indigenous leaders, because they must have someone as a leader and they will listen to that person, then we can start to explain needs, and also we have to explain for them that as you said it's been 500 years passed, and we are in new world, we have to be together, we have to be friendly, we have to communicate and fix things together, Im sure there are ways better than war, and it's called peace, and you can't expect million of people leaving a place because 500 years ago that place was for another people, I am sure that there are many other places which was not for the ones who they live in those places in these years, or after 1000 years, we had many of these in history ... all the genocide, theft, raping and pillaging. these are happening in all the world! for example racist is not just for one country or 2 country, racist exist in any part of the world, so as a leader of the country which described up there :) I start fix things step by step and with communication and peace, and I also will take care of the nature and I wont let people destroy the nature! I will plan some new rules to limit them, because everyone knows that people need woods, people need natural energies and water and many other things, so I would stop the companies that polluted the water, and I will set a research team to find solution for the air problem, and finding the best way to fix it. if it's because of cars or factories or anything, we will find the problem first and then limit them or stopping them completely, indigenous people has rights, but we can negotiate with them and then we can find solutions together. to live in one country and live in peace.
I live in a place where we have different indigenous people, I am also indigenous, but the new generation and I can't speak my mother language or father language, but I think and I am sure the reason is because my language had nothing new or technology to make people learn it, for example even our Farsi language is filled with many English and French words :
we say : SMS , Message , deliver, mobile, computer, remove, install , add and .... (you see Farsi is destroyed without any war but only with technology)
so about the language there is no way but the only language can live more than other language which has something new to the world, and people will follow that, if I would still speak my father or mother language I couldn't read many Farsi books, because there was not much resources in my language, so after Farsi, I learned English to understand more and also use technologies and have more resources.
I said all of these to tell you that indigenous people are good but they also need to learn and study to understand more things, more technologies.
think if we had no study? could we even understand what is a computer then to use a site like steemit which is connected to blockchain?
The indigenous population is everywhere. This term cannot be removed today, but we can live with that situation at the same time that we must try to treat it for future generations
... If we don't start today. When are we going to start?
What we should do now?
Building a social situation in which the privileges enjoyed by specific groups disappear. It is a situation where equality of opportunity prevails, with all people enjoying financial and cultural conditions that meet their needs.
What should we do for future generations?
Indigenous people feel marginalized or oppressed or they are different from others because the word : indigenous People
Example:
When born a child from indigenous population.
At first, he doesn't know anything about this.
But when he grows up and comes out of the house,
he starts to hear the word indigenous that makes him know there are non-indigenous.
and begins to compare the situation of the non-indigenous. and indigenous
Then he'll feel different and feel there's another kind of human named non-indigenous. taking his right.
understand more... If someone told you he owns a second-generation computer.... you'll definitely know there's a first-generation computer...and then start looking for the difference between them... for know who's the best. ....etc
But if this person told you he owns a computer..... The conversation will stop at this limit...
another example: Imagine there is no darkness.. Inevitably we can't know the daylight... we know things by their opposites.
.... The same thing for the word indigenous. If we try to delete this word from our culture and delete it from our daily talk and delete it from our life and replace it with the word: Canadian
the generations that come after us will not find this word and all citizens become belong to one group named: Canadian
I actually disagree Indigenous is an acknowledgement of their position in the history of the land it says those are the lands first people.
George Carlin has a great bit about calling things what they are and the ridiculousness of euphemisms.
If you want to work to changing the words used for these groups then perhaps a better focus would be to call them by the name they use for themselves when I call my self Anglo that names connects me to my culture and history.
In my work I meet a lot of Australian Indigenous and when is suitable I will ask if they are Noongar (Usually "who is your mob?") so that I can know if they connect and identify as belonging to the local tribe asking them to relinquish their name at least in Australias case is literally asking the worlds oldest culture to abandon 50,000 years.
I think you would find that the vast majority of the indigenous would be highly insulted being called Canadian. They are not Canadian and nor am I. They associate with their own nation, a concept that most Canadians fail to recognize or even comprehend. Being Canadian is to be colonized and they reject the idea of colonization as it represents genocide. I too reject being Canadian for the same reasons. I've worked far too long and hard to decolonize myself to have other people try to lump me back into that group. I'm curious if you or anybody within this debate have entertained the idea of spending time with them, learning their culture and hearing what they have to say about this entire topic. I'm also curious if anybody will contemplate ending the violence so that the relationship can be reconciled. What are your thoughts about those issues?