Only-Upvote-Others-Athon - Join Up, It's Free :)

in #blog7 years ago

The behavior we exemplify shows what we put first. Are you here for the "social" media first, or for the money first?

If we buy STEEM -- or earn STEEM -- and upvote every single one of our own posts and comments, we are trying to reward ourselves without any evaluation of the content, just because it's us. That is blind upvoting. Would you upvote all of someone else's comments? I don't think so... Yet many people are looking at the $money$ and trying to get rewards. That's what's motivating their behavior to self-vote everything.

When we vote on other posts and comments, we are saying we value the content and want to reward it in some way as a thank you, to show gratitude or appreciation -- or something like that usually. This motive is not always present, as curation rewards also drive people to focus on money first and simply vote to try to get curation rewards instead of evaluating the content for the content itself.

Of course we like what we post/comment and want to get appreciated and even rewarded for it. But if your voting for yourself, then it's not someone who is actually appreciating and rewarding you, but you're just doing it to yourself. Is there really that much value and appreciation for simply voting and rewarding ourselves? Or does the value and appreciation for our posts/comments actually come from others?

What would you like a social media platform to be? A place where content is rewarded because it's evaluated and appreciated by others? Or a place where the content doesn't really matter since much of the user-base is motivated by money to reward themselves, not primarily motivated into developing social media content, posts and comments to get rewarded when others deem it. One is where we let others decide what we get for what we do rather than us saying "I want to give myself more money".

One thing we need to ask ourselves is if we want to use our power to value, appreciate and reward others more than we want to value, appreciate and reward our own content. Then, to what extent to we apply this?

Pay-to-play upvoting ourselves also undermines the purpose of having others actually evaluate our content to determine whether something gets a vote, popularity, visibility and rewards. Buying an upvote to get rewarded is part of the mindset that is undermining the original purpose of social media where people evaluate other content. Just pay to get votes and rewards no matter the content being appreciated by others or not. Money becomes the primary drive for our voting behavior, not the content driving our behavior to appreciate and vote -- or not.

On Steemit the evaluations generate upvotes and rewards. When we just upvote and give ourselves rewards, it cheapens the "spirit" of social media and Steemit. People want to self-reward themselves, and others want to be paid for their votes. What happens if we all decide that since others are not giving their votes for free, then neither should any of us, and we all charge to give votes to others? Whether it's everyone or just a few people, the principle of how pay-to-play affects the operation of a platform is the same, it's just less visible when it's still smaller and has fewer effects in the short-term. Money changes everything. Improper behavior is often not seen by many until long-term effects set in.

If we want to make Steemit a place where the content reward distribution is based on people evaluating the content of others, then we need to stop putting short-term personal money-gains first in our behavior on the platform. I didn't used to vote on my own comments, and I didn't start to after HF19. I used to auto-vote my own posts, but stopped doing that before HF19 was released. I'm glad I did. I don't get as many rewards, but my votes go to others, not to myself.

I invite others to change their behavior as required, and only upvote others.

upvoted.jpg

We can each set a better example of what Steemit can be. You don't get paid to change your voting behavior ;), but you get to know that you are working for the long-term benefit of the platform as an honest evaluation of content, like social media should be (at least in my understanding the social media should drive money, not the money driving the social media). I think that's better, not to make this a place where money drives us to vote for ourselves to get more of the money pie, or pay others to vote for us to get more of the money pie.


Thank you for your time and attention! I appreciate the knowledge reaching more people. Take care. Peace.

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Bro, can't even finishing reading this w/o confessing this is me ur talking about. I feel like a jerk now that you put it the way you did but you're right.

Most of my self-votes are to get my comment in the right place bc generally on the web people don't scroll that much.

Your point is well-taken. If I slow dowm and use Steemit to promote the good instead of my own Ego and fear, we'll all be better off.

I think you deserve a pat on the back for owning your behavior like this. It takes a lot of courage to self evaluate and decide to change something you're used to.
I noticed you called yourself a "jerk" but I don't think you should lay any judgments against yourself, it's been popularized and promoted to do just that and at least you're seeing the other side to it and deciding to spread your love yourself :)
Steemit is a great community full of love and encouragement, this post is an a perfect example of that. Kudos to you friend for your insight!
XO

thank you for your kind words I'll take everything you said to ❤️

I think as long money is involved we always will have people who are here only to earn it.

I did the same... Upvote my own comments to change the order. Like many people here already said, I think it is okay for minnows. And of course you shouldn't vote somehing banal like "cool post, bro!"
On Steemit I think more about what I write because I want to earn my own upvote.

You deserved an Upvote Mr @writewords.

Lots of kindness coming my way... i'm really glad this new perspective is clear to me.

I like you're honest reflection upon the matter, gave you a 100% upvote for that. Thanks for the feedback :)

Bro, just seeing this comment. Funny how life / Steemit works. When you don't try to make money is when you typically make it -- Thank you so much for the full-power upvote!

You are setting a perfect example of taking opinions in a positive way and making the change @writewords. Upvoted your reply :).

Don't feel like a jerk though. Don't just upvote everything you do. Upvote some of your own stuff sometimes, but try to make an effort to upvote others. I just gave you a 100% upvote for like a dollar for your honesty.

If you need to make your comment stand out there isn't anything wrong with upvoting that if the comment is well thought out or a good response to the topic. If you are upvoting spam and low effort comments try to work on that and make your comments better.

You actually get a decent amount of followers if you write out a good comment with some length. People like to read stuff. I go on reddit and for hours just read what others typed and i usually don't even contribute, but here I do because I am building a following at the same time :)

Thank you so much for your big ole upvote -- totallu agree with everything you said. Basically deliver value or don't post. Something to that effect. Even a compliment can lift the spirits... 🙏🏻🙌🏻

This is an excellent post that leaves unstated the struggle for the soul of Steemit. Will Steemit be the social media platform that empowers the world to transcend the replacement of human work with automation, or will it be just another pump and dump, discarded after the maximum profits have been wrung from it?

Either case is possible, and many, many more. In the end, unless the code is changed to preclude the mining of the rewards pool for profit, Steemit will remain a means of concentrating Steem in a handful of accounts, and content creators will languish with the tiny fraction that reaches them.

HF20 is about greasing the skids so that huge numbers of new accounts can join Steemit. However, HF19 reduced the available votes per post by 400%, and many are now self voting out of desperation, since there are fewer votes available, which further reduces the votes available per post.

Adding a bunch of new accounts, to flounder and seek support in an increasingly noisy environment, already starved of votes, will result in much discouragement in short order. I reckon we should make their way ready, before bringing them in.

Steemit only gets one chance to make a first impression. Once folks are discouraged, they are unlikely to return.

What do you think about having 400% fewer full power votes a day when there are 1000% more posts now than there were when HF19 was first discussed? What will the effects be of a massive influx of new users in a vote starved, post-rich environment? @liberosist has proposed ~100 full power votes (which would prevent bots from voting more than people), before VP rapidly decays to zilch. Would this help?

Thanks for keeping this issue up front, where Steemit needs it.

Edit: it should read 'reduced available votes per day by 400%' not per post. sorry!

I suspected less votes were being applied because more people were upvoting themselves instead of changing their vote percentage, which I suspect low SP accounts don't have that yet. So then why isn't that enabled by default? Then people could actually use a 25% upvote, if they knew that's how things worked.

I think another solution to simplify would be to make the default 100% vote, but have the slider go to 400% (the current 100%). Then that retains the previous measure of voting power people are familiar with, rather than divide it by a factor of 4 yet still use the same measure of 100% while it is a different power. That would help get more upvotes around, even if the self-vote is still enabled on the blockchain.

Thanks for the valued feedback as usual ;)

Unless you have 500 SP, you don't get a slider with which to change vote percentage. All your votes are at 100%, which means you only get 10, before you have to stop and let them recharge for a day.

Again, bad development of features on Steemit.com. It promotes new users to continue doing what they already did. Just keep using 100% even when you get the bar, because there is no info on how the power works. No info for newbs. It's been an issue for over a year, and still not section on the site for how things work...

Steemit is in beta. It should be. There are those (obvious from the financial manipulations ongoing) that just want to maximize short term profits, and I think they are pushing hard to open the floodgates to massive adoption.

I don't think those parties so pushing for short term profits care a fig for the long term success of Steemit, or anything other than their quarterly returns, and this is a threat to Steemit in the long term.

This is why I strongly believe Steemit should first ensure that it's present userbase is widely satisfied (per capita, not per SP) with Steemit's rewards mechanism before opening those floodgates. I care not a fig for my quarterly profits, but do care very much that Steemit succeed in the long term.

There are a lot of things that are attempts to mitigate the weighting of VP by SP, and the slider is one of them. As @baah just replied in another conversation I am having "as long as curation of content is for profit, manipulation of curation for profit will happen", and mitigation cannot succeed.

That's an interesting proposal (from @liberosist), but how does it improve the user/bot ratio.
I'm trying to be as honest about the potential and the difficult learning and earning curves here with potential users and newbies (myself included).

Well, right now our VP starts to decay after only 10 votes, beyond what can be recharged each day, but never goes to zero. People can only vote so many posts (substantively). I averaged over 100 votes a day, until I read the white paper and learned that my VP could not recharge until I stopped just voting for what I liked.

So bots can vote thousands of times a day now, and each vote, while of low power, will deliver rewards. Bots can mine much more SP from the rewards pool than people now.

Under @liberosist's proposal, bots would no longer be able to mine more rewards than a person, because VP would decay to nothing. Their ability to keep voting 24/7/365 would no longer be an advantage over people, who can read and curate only ~100 posts a day (YMMV).

Since the number of posts has risen by about 1000% since HF19 was first considered, and HF19 decreased the number of votes we can cast by 400%, the result has been the desperation you can read commenters here expressing, and resulted in self votes - which further decreases the votes available per post.

Increasing full power votes to what people can actually cast, and limiting voting to what people can do helps to keep curation a human activity, rather than susceptible to rewards pool mining bots.

It also helps to throw votes to new users, and this helps to encourage them to stay and build the community, which they will not do if they can't get votes.

Thank you @krnel for this post. It makes a lot of sense. I agree with upvoting our own content and pulling from the pool. Here on I might change my upvote strategy just like I stop auto-upvote too. And without reading I do not want to upvote anyone. I am against this auto system as it takes away the full right of a person who is reading the content and taking their decision. See if we can make changes in that please.

Upvoted you for actually reading his post and responding. Thank you for participating.

Thanks for additional information, well thought out response. I agree, I see that too :)

Kind of like giving yourself a high five or kissing the mirror.

Might make ya feel good for a second but, it just isn't the same thing as when somebody does it for you.

Good insights @krnel

LMAO! You said it very well in that metaphor, well done :)

I auto-upvote my own posts for one reason. I'm 71 years old and this is my only source of income. If I don't earn, I don't have a roof over my head... If that's self-serving, oh well. On the other issue, I have never upvoted one of my own comments.

You go @richq11 I wish you the best in all you do! :)

Thanks!

now upvote my comment please lol you the best granpa!!

You'll have to wait until I get some more juice

what are you drinking?? lol

I upvoted you because my father is in the exact situation -- although he isn't as savvy as you are. I help him whenever I can, and I hope someone is doing the same for you. Much respect.

I spend about 4-6 hours writing my stories every day... that's where I need the upvotes! Thanks for your support... Upvoted & followed!

For staying current with the technology and demonstrating continuous learning, I upvoted you.

Thanks... I don't know how current I am on the tech side, but I try. I'm a writer and to me, this is just a confusing typewriter lol!

Huge respect to you for using this site asa 71 year old person. God Bless you and here's an upvote & a follow.

Thanks... If you like horror and/or conspiracy stories, check out my blog... The Night Gods II

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The platform is already working and making a profit :)
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Comment Spam
!cheetah ban

Okay, I have banned @spaceguard.

I have seen several people with a reputation of 70 giving self vote to their blogs, so I guess no issue!

I was talking about my age!

I know and I saw your reputation score as well.
People having a reputation score above 60, 65 believe to be more ethical on Steemit and that's why I said that this is not the case and they vote their own blogs as well. Even I don't see any issues in self voting your own blog.
So keep doing that and following you to read the horror stories.
Thanks.

Thank you!

bro i caught u using a meme twice
u cant be lazy
ur making this meme stale!

u wont win anymore giveaways if u dont find new memes!
i takememe freshness seriously!

Say that brother! 🙏

I Give you some Love (upvote)granpa

It doesent do much unless you have significant steem power , so for the most part it doesent affect the network . Not a problem

In recent times I've rethought upvoting my own posts ad have chosen to instead use 100% vote power upvotes for those who choose to comment on my posts. As time goes on and more choose to comment, I may have to reduce my vote power simply to reward as many as possible.

After I have taken care of my readers who comment, I generally go under the new tab and begin looking for something to vote on and vote 100% until it's time to recharge.

Nice, I do similar. Replies then new posts. :)

Love that concept 🙌🏼🙌🏼

I hope everyone starts doing the same!

there is nothing wrong upvoting my own post

Thats easier to say for someone who gets 274$ for just 30 votes. We minnows dont earn much from it. thats why we vote ourselves. I hope you understand my point

I certainy do and I do think it is a bit insensitive for someone so affluent to be critical of others for seeking the very thing they likely have begun to take for granted.

I am a fan of @krnel because he does great stuff. However, this is same old, same old...

The 1% have 99% of the wealth and they expect the 99% with 1% of the wealth to do all the heavy lifting and pay for it all. One aspect ignored here is that some of us don't have money to throw around at others. We have a burden and moral obligation to keep ourselves alive first. This is the fundamental order of nature.

The rich want to devour the poor and then ask them to be altruists for the sake of "social media". This article needs to be directed at greedy whales who do a lot more damage than minnows scuffling for nickles and dimes. A minnows actions are mostly meaningless, but whales distributing hundreds and thousands of dollars daily in a grand scheme to fool the bottom of the food chain into thinking it's all about skill and talent? P.T. Barnum once said there is a sucker born every minute. Around here it's more like every three seconds.

What a reply, like seriously, you nailed it!
You deserve a $100 for this comment, I will give you what I have!

And worried too, your comment might get flagged by a big fish :P

very well said sir kudos to you -- upvote

I submit that it is minnows self votes that are mostly meaningless, as they have great value in encouraging others, who would be excited to receive your vote. Would you rather have $.02, or a friend?

I do understand discouragement. I have posts in the pipeline that have $.03 in rewards. I am not rich, except in friends.

If you have a look at my latest post, you will see how much more valuable community is to me than mere money (I don't want to link it here, because that would be spammy). I only suggest it because it so exemplifies my point.

We all will be big one day for sure!

LOL. You think I get voted by the same high SP people each time? No. Some people saw it and liked it, and not my others posts hehe. You don't earn much because you just started and need to get noticed for the content you put out. It can take time, for some it's quicker. Some people have accounts that are newer than min and make hundreds per post each day.

@krnel was a minnow once too. I am a Krill now, lol. If you are only here for money, you won't receive the most valuable thing Steemit has to offer, which is community.

Consider that you can cast ~10 votes a day, but if you attract 10 followers, they can cast 100. It is far more profitable, even only in terms of money, to cast your votes for others, because they have far more votes they can cast for you.

This comment gets a 2.08 % upvote thanks to @shehryar - Hail Eris !

This comment has received a 0.12 % upvote from @booster thanks to: @shehryar.

Hello my friend @krnel It is wonderful that everyone helps each other here during the vote

Indeed it is.

@krnel thanks for taking a stand on this out in the open.

I unchecked the upvote post box after HF19 because my VP dwindled too fast and I felt bad when I could only offer a 0.07 vote for someone who did a great job.

I've also stopped upvoting comments to get them towards the top so people will read them. (Cut me some slack on that one brah, I've been here like 7 weeks.) I've seen that the really good people here do in fact read down through the comments. I've also seen that some people will disregard your comments no matter where they are in the list.

I don't know how to deal with the self & circular voting. I don't see anyone having anything to say that will make these people, "Come to Jesus" and I quickly grew tired of taunting them. It was fun at first.

Good stuff, nice to see similar mindsets operating on Steemit :)

I think I got more out of that exchange than you did, but it's comforting to see that there are decent people who give a shit higher up too.

What you mean? You got more out of your previous comment than I did? :P

I think I got more from your post than you got from my comment.

It's easy to become jaded here, spending a lot of time actually trying to add to the community only to watch people post & comment shit and get huge rewards.

I understand that it takes time to build something lasting here and I'm going to continue grinding away at it.

Your post restored a little faith in humanity.

Yeah it can be tough. I only made it big for a a month or two with the help of some whales like dantheman, the original inventor of the Steem blockchain and former CTO of steemit. Then other whales didn't like how knowledge on consciousness or morality was getting to trending, and would flag it. You can go see that start in January. Then at the end of February I had enough and called them out for being inconsistent and irrational hypocrites and bullies of their power to choose what posts were allowed to get to trending and visibility, and what posts were allowed to keep their rewards. They cam e up with BS excuses like "whale swarm" while others posts got more whale votes and higher payout... They don't value real valuable knowledge, so they say it "is not the type of content that will help steemit attract, retain, or grow a user base, nor will incentivizing it with high rewards do so". This is how many people view quality information, as not valuable, whales and other popular users like atsdavid have disregard for quality valuable knowledge that can improve lives.

I left for 3 months because I was then being flagged on all posts. Abuse is not something I tolerate,s o since nothing was changing on Steemit Inc side, I left in protest and not wanting to continue to be treated like that. Nothing has changed since I came back, was still being flagged, then I called it out again and dantheman flagged bernie the bully troll whale down to -10 rep.

Yeah, the idea of morality doesn't sit well with some people.

Unfortunately, I have to try and write, I wasn't born with a nice set of perky tits.

The beauty of sharing knowledge ....... let us mutually help each other. Please upvote / resteem yes if you like.