A Conversation About "Waking People Up". Is It Our Responsibility? Is Selfishness Altruistic? What Do You Think?
A Conversation In Flow Is Like Having Sex. Every Now and Again, Something Beautiful is Created!
I was having a conversation (Via the soon-to-be-forgotten FB) with an old and close friend yesterday. He was in the beginning of a long term fast (which will include a hike/solitary stay on top of a mountain for 2 weeks) and had just taken a dose of LSD. He reached out to me. I wanted to share with you a bit of our conversation, a period where thoughts flowed freely and easily. I don't claim these thoughts as my own, we birthed them together and re-reading our conversation the next day; I'm learning from things that 'I' said. I've invited him to join us on Steemit (as I'm new myself). I'm sure he will be introducing himself, and how his fast went in two weeks time. However, until then here's a bit of our conversation...
Word-Smithing: The Conversation
I added punctuation to make it more readable. The new paragraphs are separate messages.
Context: He is recounting his fasting+LSD experience he just had/is having.
D:
I was sent to hell and my spirit was baptized in pain and fire before I was pure enough to see the answers I seek.
Most painful experience of my life.
But I am hoping to revisit. [on his two week journey]
Lol.
Maybe I can make words of it this time around.
People should know about this.
I just remembered that I felt that God made good on his promises.
And nirvana awaits all beings.
And that faith is more important than knowledge.
Lol, I probably sound like a psycho.
Glad I feel open to be a psycho with you.
R:
I have to admit I have never been to hell. I keep intending the experience but, I keep getting told that I don't need it. ? I don't know who's saying that. ?
I don't think you sound one bit like a psycho. I retract, I do think you're a psycho. But I think all the best people are. Psycho that you're not accepting the norm. ?
It's hard, our language is so limiting that it becomes difficult to explain these understandings and feelings. Because they are pre-language they can not be defined by language. We continue to attempt as best we can. But it can't replicate or replace the experience.
Making note that you said faith is more important than knowledge, yet you seek knowledge. ?
But as we all know, faith without works is dead. Belief without action is worthless.
So, let's build Nirvana.
Let's resurrect Atlantis.
There's no reason heaven can't be on this physical plane.
D:
I agree.
We need to make earth our heavenly home. And respect and take care of our mother which all life springs from. This is our life and we need to make the most of it
This is our life and we need to make the most of it.
Big action!
We need to wake these people up!
Or, at least guide the herd in positive ways!
R:
Do we?
That is, do we need to guide anyone; or wake anyone up?
D:
I don't know.
I would like it if they were actually alive!
I just feel like, if they stay sleeping the earth suffers. Am I wrong?
I just want to share what I have learned with them. That maybe they can use the knowledge to free themselves from the society that they are accustomed to believe is right.
R:
I want to respond with two planes of thought. In relation to me saying that I thought this way before (not suggesting that I'm more right now, just that I have changed my thoughts). I was confident that my duty in life was to 'wake people up' as if I was right. (In one way it was my hubris guiding this, in another way I believe it is my calling as a teacher (several readings) that was guiding this desire.
On one plane, I have found it near impossible to 'wake people up' or incite people to change. It was this exact train of thought that damaged our relationship before. However loving the base, it is still violent to presume I knew what was best (regardless of my experience or knowledge).
I have found the ONLY time when I have been able to help people along their path; was when I was able to facilitate an environment when they approached me. I am only approached because of the way I am choosing to live my life.
I have found that the less I actively attempt try to help others, the more I have the real opportunities to do so.
D:
That's very profound.
There's a lot of sense to that.
R:
Further, I have been able to focus that time on my own growth which has helped me to be more equipped to help others when they ask. And only when they ask.
D:
I am humbled
R:
On a second plane, I believe us to be all connected and to be dealing with a lot of pain, suffering and injury from our entire culture, past cultures' lives and past lives that need healing and if I am able to heal myself, I heal humanity collectively without having to actively persuade change in 'others'.
There is a school of spirituality called [Ho?oponopono] which teaches as we heal our own wounds we collectively heal the wounds of those around us.
D:
Yes I like this school of thought.
R:
I have noticed I gained more anxiety from Cece [my partner] (she's suffered from it for years and I never did). I realized that I was equipped more to deal with anxiety, and as I healed that new anxiety within me, it healed within her.
D:
Wow that's awesome.
R:
So, the ONLY way I was able to affect outward change was to focus on internal healing.
I got NOWHERE attempting to teach her techniques in how to "help herself". But, I've made massive strides in healing my own trauma and watching her grow on her own path. ?
I notice I project outwards on her a lot when I'm anxious calling her out on her anxiety. I try now to notice that it is my duty to heal my own anxiety. ?
D:
That makes so much sense to me right now.
You're blowing my mind a bit.
So simple yet powerful.
R:
When I wanted to "help others evolve" I found myself stuck. But, once I became as "selfish" as possible to make heaven on earth for me, only then have I been able to start to help others through truly helping myself. ?
I'm glad you resonate with this. ?
D:
Yes I've really enjoyed our recent conversations.
They are definitely helping me on my path.
Saving me a lot of misguided time!
I just need to heal myself. Thats my only responsibility. It makes absolute sense.
Heal others through myself!
You should write a book.
Your words flow so magnificently.
R:
Exactly, ? it's the only thing we actually can do [help ourselves]. Also, just so happens that 'we' are "others" ?.
Thank you brother! I really appreciate that. ?
I am beginning to write more.
It helps to have someone as open as you to let these thoughts flow through me, this is not a one sided conversation. So thank you for making magic with me ?.
D:
Yeah anytime, I am very happy and honored to share in the experience.
God that idea is so profound.
You have no idea.
That's exactly what I needed to hear.
I've been trying way to hard to save and fix people, and it's been me the whole time.
Kind of funny.
R:
How empowering is this realization? For me it was such a relief, because I could actually change myself when it was damn near impossible to change others. It took transforming the world from an impossible task and made it relatively simple. ?
D:
Right! I can't believe it.
It's amazing.
Wish there was a single word for it.
R:
I'm glad I was able to act as a conduit for you. That's actually why I changed my desire to become a "teacher" into my desire to be a "facilitator" to facilitate spirit to work through me and not assume I know the answers. ?
D:
I would tattoo it on my hand.
R:
I would call it 'selfish'.
D:
?
R:
The desire to truly do what's best for the self (which, just so happens to be best for the world and everyone else. ?)
D:
What a wonderful realization.
R:
Seriously, anytime I am not being selfish for some supposed 'altruism' I find I secretly have a motive, or end up holding some grudge; or worse, making myself less because my needs weren't met thus lessening my capability to truly be altruistic.
Selfishness is the gateway to altruism. ?
When my needs are wholly and truly met and I have a surplus of time after having fully met my needs. Then, only then, am I able to altruistically help others.
Otherwise I would have to have a motive in attempting to meet my needs which aren't being met.
D:
It's so true and here I am seeking altruism like its some kind of goal. I had it backwards.
R:
[I've found for me], altruism comes naturally in an environment of abundance. Our culture creates scarcity (wholly artificial) which is why altruism is near non existent in our society.
But, now we return to the middle.
What is your question?
I'm not entirely asking for you to tell me, just curious if it has changed.
D:
I am at a loss of questions right now.
I guess I just want to figure out the next steps to take to get in a better position for myself where more of my needs are fulfilled.
At this point we go on to discuss a technique he is going to apply on his fast. Maybe he will share later if he joins us...
(Now he's off on a Journey with this thought, I'm really quite excited to see what he comes back with!)
My Thoughts Today
Yesterday was a powerful reminder for me to continue to be "selfish". That is, to do what is truly (more on that later) best for myself. This realization was given to me, I was able to help share it with a friend who seemed to value it deeply and now I'm paying it forward. So, what do you think. Is it our responsibility to "wake people up" and "change others" or would we be better of just being selfish and truly changing/helping ourselves?
Rieki
Yeah this is what worries me. Bad trips!
You are some masochist you!
I'm having this problem even without LSD!
It's interesting that the word (verb) "pono" (πονώ) in Greek means "I'm in pain". Just thought to mention that!
Interesting. It's quite true that scarcity is manufactured. There really is no such thing. There's plenty for everyone. But the hoarders won't let it be that way.
What I gather from all this, is that despite D's 'awakened' status, the way he expresses himself doesn't really sound all that different from anyone. I can sometimes see narcissism in his words, I can sometimes see the need to share his knowledge, I can hear him using words such as 'the herd'. And so on. Really not all that different from me or anyone. Buddhists at least live differently, they resign earthly possessions etc. Nor have I read anything profound in his words. I mean, I'm assuming Shakespeare for instance never took drugs. But he said some pretty profound things! Other LSD writers, such as Terence Mckenna whom I've mentioned, or Aldous Huxley, said some profound and interesting things. So, it seems to me, no matter how deep your LSD experience, at the end of the day we're back to the real world, where inequality rules. Some people are just better writers, thinkers, whatever. That's the thing that causes the most strife in people I think, the realization that other people might be better (smarter, more beautiful, better in bed, whatever). When people take LSD and feel like they're part of everything, that's mainly the thing that goes away: comparing themselves to others, or individuality. That's why they feel, temporarily, better.
Unless it's a bad trip!
But you went on to mention all that, that he should stop trying to be a teacher and become a facilitator etc. But it was interesting that you said the best way to do that is through selfishness. I'm not so sure about that. I have a friend who says the same and we've talked about this at length. But I don't really know. I guess I would like to know how that translates in practice in order to be able to form a judgement.
Hi Alex,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply (as always)!
First, I was having a more in depth conversation with him before I started to share (some of it more personal to him and I wanted to give him the ability to share if he liked). So, I am not suggesting he did or didn't say anything profound here, nor would I consider him or I "awakened". It is just a word that I find used often in philosophic discussion when one feels they are seeing more clearly than others.
What I was interested in showing is my thoughts on the matter. I wrote all my responses almost mindlessly as I was allowing myself to be distracted when I was working out (given the limited time window to discuss with him). So, I was really sharing my own insights that I gained writing with him.
I'm interested, have you ever tried any psychedelic, or mind altering plants?
haha, unlikely. The reason I say that is I have experimented, journeyed, and explored with many different plants and techniques (holotropic breath-work, and Shamanic Journeying ) that I will share with you in more detail later, as I'm sure you would find fascinating. My comment of was mainly the desire to seek a single powerful and life altering experience that temporarily opens you up to the infiniteness of our universe and permanently alters our perspectives (as with the two writers I adore and respect can attest, Terrence Mckenna and Aldous Huxley). That is all. Not all 'bad' trips are truly 'bad'. Whatever that word means ;)
Excellent, I didn't know that and that fits perfectly with the discipline. Discussing how any of our pains were brought into our lives specifically for us to heal them. It's a fascinating discipline and has really empowered me to actually deal with some issues that I have been experiencing (as mentioned above).
I believe there are at may different types of 'bad trips'. However, the ones that people seek are what he mentioned above. "Going to hell" in my understanding from people who have mentioned the experience is typically recounted as a very favorable experience (That is after the fact). I have seen people completely lose anxious tendencies in a week and others no longer fear death (which was preventing them from pursuing their passions)
You're on a roll! You're thoughts are so thought provoking that it continues to encourage me to write an entire article to best respond. (I am just finishing the last one I promised, I will tag you when I post it) Now, I will start a new one to better explain selfishness and my thoughts on this post :)
Nope! ... I would have liked to, in the past. But now, because I've had panic attacks before, and because I'm sometimes in a depressive mood, I'm afraid to try those substances! I'm worried they might alter my brain chemistry permanently, in a bad way.
I guess maybe part of the reason relates to what James Randi describes here.
Hahaha, he keeps using this word "real" he even said "actually real" as if there is another level of realness to real... Not my cup of tea ;) This term real doesn't exist.
Fyi science says try mushrooms to cure depression. The point of psychedelics and plant medicine is to alter your brain and body chemistry! I'm surprised you having mentioned terrence mckenna. Have you read much of his work?
Haven't read anything, just watched a lot of youtube videos, and I LOVE how grounded the guy is, despite all his experiments, how very eloquent he is, how he expresses himself and how he uses the language to make strange experiences more palpable for the rest of us. We need more people like him. He wasn't just a mambo-jumbo guy like many of his cohorts seem to be.
Some of his books are on my amazon wish list! :P
I love his writing, it's wonderful! Caution, if you read too much by him you may be encouraged to explore the realms of plant medicine and accidentally heal yourself ;)
I highly recommend it!! Also, a lot of his work is public domain :) Food of the Gods
You, your children, and more's futures are at stake staying asleep one more second.
I love sleeping in, specifically when I'm lucid dreaming! Wonderful time. Care to elaborate?