New Money For Old Eyes?
Earlier today I resteemed a couple of posts relating to advertising, a hot topic in light of recent events. Could advertising, or 'attention trading' bring new money into Steem and keep the majority happy?
One thing is for sure, I don't want to see irrelevant flashing images by the side of this text, and I would like to be paid too - it's my attention being caught after all......
:D
The last presentation of SteemFest 3 started around 4:30 pm and was titled 'Growing Steem Ecosystem'. The blurb mentioned @waivio - I'd heard the name, but it wasn't ringing any bells and so I wasn't sure what to expect - I was there for the prior presentations, but I'm glad I caught this one too.
The speakers name was Alex Gruntsev (@grampo) and interestingly, Roeland introduced Alex by saying:
maybe you'll be the last speaker ever at SteemFest; Am I hinting at something?
Anything you have to tell us Mr P? :P
I do think the video is worth a watch, it should start at 2 hours 30 ish, but if not, that's where to skip to.
Advertising: 1
When we produce a post, we are competing against other posts for attention. In a way, we are advertising ourselves/our work - paintings/photos/ideas etc. And as we all should know by now, the best work normally doesn't receive the most attention. You can see @nonameslefttouse's post on this subject, it's a solid read.
Advertising: 2
The 'new' form of advertising, as discussed by Alex in the video, is more about focused advertisements and not posts, and hopefully no flashing bs on the side of the screen.
Could this form of advertising:
- source new investment into STEEM/Steem Power?
- be smart about what ads are presented?
- pay us, not Steemit inc or application you are using to Steem?
Some answers of sorts in a moment, but first, a short story.
It was 1999, and I was on my placement year working in a small IT department. My friend had told me about an program that paid you as long as you were active at your PC and had the program running. This program presented adverts across the bottom of your screen - where the Windows taskbar is.
The owners of this program would pay you by the hour and if i remember correctly, a little more if an advert was clicked. For me, this bar was a bit evasive and so I didn't use it much when I was working. (It was easy to game with another program that moved your mouse cursor intermittently).
All Advantage was their name, and paying us for our attention (or at least they thought) was their game. Could we have something like this for Steem in the future? (Is this what @waivio plans?)
New money for old eyes
Alex discusses a smarter approach than All Advantage (who sent me a $30 cheque) which is a a tab with pending advertisements 'for our attention'. We choose when we want to see the list of ads, it could be managed by ignoring/hiding advertisers etc, we could potentially barter -' I'll not watch this for less than 5 STEEM thank you very much', and the advertisers could bid against each other (burn the lowest bid?).
So these businesses, or advertisers, are bidding against each other for our attention. New money comes in to pay the consumer for doing something - reading, watching, (up-voting? :P ). The payment for something like watching a video clip, could be paid in STEEM (in 3 seconds), an SMT (errr), or maybe an up-vote on the comment to say that you watched it (comment box doesn't appear until the end of the video?).
Why would businesses come to Steem to advertise?
Cause they can see everything we have written, every tag we've used, every tag we have voted on, every account that has voted for our interesting post on the latest running shoes, and, how much money we have in our wallets.
Eg. Get me a list of everyone who's posted about #running #jogging #fitness in the past 2 months, and has upvoted this guys post on these new trainers, and who's got over 150 liquid STEEM in their wallet.
Probably not the best example, but yeah, there's lots of data to work with.
Focused advertising, built on every interaction that's taken place on Steem - a transparent view of this should attract advertisers, they don't even have to snoop, it's there for all to see.
Who's getting paid?
Me, hopefully. I downloaded the app/extension, which is smart like Steem Keychain or MetaMask and knows when to appear, the advertisements are targeted to me, and I'm the one choosing to consume them or not - surely I'm the one getting paid!
I am not the first or the 50th person to state this but I think that advertising has the potential to bring new revenue into Steem, which seems needed more than ever right now. If I was given a list, which I could chose not to view until I was ready, of adverts that I knew were tailored to me, I would be OK with taking a quick look every now and then.
Each application (busy,steve,partiko,etc) could source the ads, or an app/browser extension like Steem Keychain / MetaMask / Waivio / Whoever gets there first.
I asked this question in a comment earlier...
So you are OK with me looking at the categories you post in, comment in, vote on, at what time, and performing a full text search of everything you've written, as long as I call it attention trading when I present it to potential advertisers?
Not like we have any choice!
Let's hope I didn't up-vote any NSFW this week.
Messy, but hopefully some food for thought.
Cheers!
Asher
I wouldn't mind a system like you describe. There have been times where on FB I used the feature they once had that allowed you to show nothing but sponsored posts/ads in your feed. It was a way of shopping for things I didn't know I was interested in that their algo determined I likely would be. And honestly I sometimes found great stuff like that.
I wouldn't do it often, but if my having the option to do that helps financially bolster the platform, win-win.
I would expect that the location of the ad viewer would have an even bigger effect on advertiser interest in them than STEEM, unless the company accepts crypto as payment.
I like the idea of splitting the money between various stakeholders. So when you watch an ad you get maybe 30% of the ad revenue, the rewards pool gets 20% and 50% gets split between everyone who is providing infrastructure.
Thanks for the comments, it's positive to hear you have found targeted ads useful/interesting in the past.
A split between all parties sounds good. Someone else mentioned this too. I wonder who gets to work out the %'s :D
Asher @abh12345, thanks for reviewing my presentation at SteemFest.
Open social platform, such as Steem blockchain, gives businesses unique ability to locate their target audiences. Waivio is building an Attention Trading platform where companies could offer incentives directly to users and not just any users, but the ones, that were pre-selected based on their domain expertise, location, standard reputation, number of followers, traction with the audience (number of replies on their posts), quality of their followers (ex., how many of them have domain expertise in hiking) and, sure, even amount of money, ex., liquid Steem or SBD, in their wallets.
Payments will be completed directly to users upon completion of certain actions/tasks. For example:
While Steem users are the main beneficiaries of the #attentiontrading, app developers will also get around 5% from all the payments collected by their users (based on which app was used to post a reply/upvote/post that triggered the reward).
Unlike advertising, attention trading is not meant to be intrusive. All active attention bids for a specific user will be aggregated in a dedicated tab, which can be integrated into any Steem app (sort of like Waivio.com/@userid (not yet operational) for a list of all the current offers (private offers would require user to login using SteemConnect to view). Users can use their favourite app to complete the action.
Besides attention trading, Waivio Labs are also promoting an Object Reference Protocol, which would enable creation of subject specific apps on Steem blockchain (hiking, cycling, cooking, travel, adventures, fishing, sailing, wine tasting and more) where community knowledge will be accumulated around objects (wine bottle, item on the menu, recipe).
You may review Waivio Whitepaper for more info.
Please follow @waivio if you would like to know more. It is an open source project.
Hi @grampo
Thanks for the comments, votes, and resteems for this post and comments.
I'm glad I got to see your presentation - something different from the rest and it seems that you could well be in the right place at the right time with @waivio.
I wish I could resteem your comment actually, there is a wealth of information here that I would like the community to see.
I've followed you and @waivio, and am looking forward to see what comes of this project. Good luck!
Mmh, @asher though topic.
First of all I don't have any problems with a small doze of advertising. Small is here the keyword. Let's take Scorum as example! They do have adds placed on their pages. And they are placed smart. They do catch attention but they don't distract!
Secondly: I don't think the adds should enrichen the users of the steem blockchain only. It should also support the witnesses and the ones who do have to pay for the infrastructure. Otherwise, the user could get more steem and the problems for the ones who do pay the infrastructure do stay the same.
Also here we could use Scorum again as example. Where 40% of the income of the adds will go to the reward pool and the others will go the ones who do have to pay the infrastructure and the witnesses!
So adds fine by my but the rewards should be distributed fairly and depending on the costs they have. Maybe for the users the showing/viewing for adds is the price they have to pay to make use of this free blockchain!
And we do have to face the fact that adds are already present on steem. Most of all the post on Trending are paid advertising, only here the money flows to the entrepreneurs who did develop the upvote bots.
Also if they are going to allow adds, is this then only on the steemit frontend or will they force this also on @busy, @esteem or @steevie ?
@steevie understood that nothing is really for free and took some measures. Like a part of the curation if they proposed the post, the offer the possibility to put steevie as beneficiary reward.
Maybe this last is a better solution.
Suppose that steem.inc would get 1 or 2% beneficiary of each post! You have a better insight in how much is extracted from the reward pool. By doing this they would get paid for each transaction on the steem blockchain, which they can use to pay for a part of the costs.
Don't know how many people would agree with a measure like this but I am just trying to think outside the box!
Cheers,
Peter
This sounds like a good idea to me!
Indeed, and so a notifications (6) showing unread ads, ready when you are ready would suit?
They could all do it separately, without anyone else's permission. Just like if someone developed a browser extension - they might want a cut, which seems reasonable.
Thanks for the comments, I've got a splitting headache and I'm going to reply to the rest in the morning.
Have a good sleep! Hope that you will be feeling better tomorrow!
I would actually appreciate relevant ads based on my content. I read once read a post by @adonisabril in which he evaluated camera stands. I want to buy one that is of decent quality but costs no more than €100. He found one. I hope he got paid well by the camera stand makers because it was very good post. I'd love have relevant product evaluations recommended to me.
Posted using Partiko Android
Did you comment/vote the post? I guess this is what a camera advertiser would be looking for.
I don't remember. But I'll look for the post and do it.
Posted using Partiko Android
totally, targeted advertising ! bring business money into steem ecosystem. I saw mentioned in yabapmatt post, like integration of fitbit devices with actifit, potentially actifit can pitch to fibit wearable to advertise their products to these targeted steem users posting daily. They can have a banner or just official account and pay advertising via upvoting service (bring in money for steem eco)
Or share2steem which we have plans to work with insta influencer or insta business account to advertise their products/services into another distribution channel on steem blockchain.
PS :
Autopost post from instagram to steemit EASILY, new dapp share2steem | Get daily upvotes from s2s and 287 users who activate unique double curation! | Let’s onboard 1% of insta users, and show them the possibilities with steem !
Yep, pretty cool idea this.
Let's see how things progress, my interest has been sparked :)
yeah mine too when i see tat news haha =)
I think it will be one of the alternative front ends that bring ads in first. Example three users are already advertising, and I believe they do get a vote from the company, not sure how much or if on every post, "Posted using Partiko Android" that is an advertisement, with a link to their home business page.
As I mentioned on a couple of other threads, I do not think it would be hard to add advertising, the question becomes who chooses what to advertise, and who benefits from the advertising.
As @paulag has pointed out though the advertisers are going to want trackers they are going to want to know who, how many and how long people see their product.
Page views were removed from steemit because, well they said they could not get it to work right. So to get advertisers, people need to know what metrics the advertisers are looking for, and those need to be made available to the advertiser.
It is a subject that I think people need to spend some time on. They need to evaluate is the cost of getting advertisers going to outweigh the benefits of having advertisers. Once a person/company/group becomes accustomed to the monetary gain they are more than will to give in to the advertisers. People need to look at history and see how many time a company has threatened pulling their advertising dollars if they did not do this or do that. It happens a lot.
People also get very upset at the wrong advertising, look at how many and how often people protest a company and boycott their business just because of an advertisement they run?
Will advertisements save steemit, provide the company with money and thus the users with rewards, or will it drive people nuts, will it open the doors to censorship, what will happen when a blogger or a poster has an advertisement on their post (auto placed), that someone objects to? We have people flagging people that get large rewards, while the reward giver walks away unscated. Will we have people being flagged now because of an auto placed ad on their post that someone finds objectionable?
People get flagged all the time for "advertising" their post on other peoples comment threads, what is to stop people from flagging advertisers? Biting the hand that feeds them basically. Think it won't happen, how many people use a bid bot, then end up flagging the very bid bot they used? it happens, it must happen quite a bit because even i notice that sort of action.
Right now everyone is just saying we need the advertisers to come to our revenue rescue, people need to take a minute to think about it.
yeah i missed the pageview feature !
if there's a google analytic dashboard app for steemit that would be awesome ! Yeah also notice ppl getting flag and negative remark for using upvote service ! i see it as a form of self sustain model for steem, it cycle the currency - spending. Those willing and can afford pay for advertising to get more reach for their content.
PS :
Autopost post from instagram to steemit EASILY, new dapp share2steem | Get daily upvotes from s2s and 287 users who activate unique double curation! | Let’s onboard 1% of insta users, and show them the possibilities with steem !
People want the advertising, so perhaps steemit should charge you an advertising fee? You are after all advertising. This is part of what people need to think about, what is advertising, what are the advertisers going to put on my post are they (steemit) going to allow advertising on individual post? what will happen to the internal advertising are you really in the future going to need to hand over a part of any reward because you advertised in you PS: I myself do not think that the ordinary user, (like myself) are ready to give a blanket approval for advertising, not without some careful thought by those that are in a position to make it happen.
yeah ultimately it up to those in position to decide.
Yes this is the tricky part I think. If the apps choose to go it alone, they will decide. Or, a new team forms with a browser extension and audits/decides on which businesses can advertise, or no-one policies it...
If advertisers have access to the blockchain, they are going to want to try to present the right ads to the right people, or else it's a waste of time. Perhaps we, as the consumer, can just hide/ignore/flag the ads/businesses.
Early stages, but an interesting area to discuss, thanks for all the points raised!
So Steemfest³ was the last fest ever then? Interesting. I'm actually quite happy that we literally gave it all this time - so I think we closed it in an honorable way :-)
With regards to advertisment I fully agree that the great potential lies in communities and categories. What advertisers always look for is influence. The wider the specific target group, the higher the chance to create a communicational impact.
This is why I believe that building and maintaining sustainable decentralized communities will be the no. 1 key driver to Steem's success in 2019. No reliance on Steemit, Inc - just us building up those communities and selling them to the world.
Happy weekend, Asher :-)
Well I hope not Marly! Strange comment from Roeland though don't you think?
I can't remember what you were advertising last year in a post, but that was a cool blog. I think it was clothing, and so like Instagram where people are paid to advertise products, why not here? They can target your followers/voters/commentators when you advertise.
I'm actually pretty interested in the potential here :D
Have a nice weekend too!
Yeah, it's definitely a weird comment. Sounds as if he wasn't planning to repeat it.
I think product placement is a HUGE opportunity for Steem / Steem bloggers. But it requires a solid, stable and ideally growing userbase, since influence is the currency for sale then.
There's surely a lot of potential - question is if it will be ever put into practice.
Big Hugzzz, Asher!
Hmmm. I dare not tag him, but may ask privately :)
I think in time it will happen, not sure how or when but I think that (reading 2/3 blogs and comments in the past few days), people are generally not against the idea if it's done well.
Yay Saturday evening, I'm staying in again :D
Hehe, I wouldn't tag him here either. Texting directly is definitely the better idea :-)
I spent basically the whole day at the beach - doesn't really feel like December here, and it also doesn't really matter :-D
You sound a tad pissed off @abh12345. Did you read the ONO whitepaper? They will be doing ad revenue and their model is rather interesting. Its worth the read.
I for one would rather no see ads or have ads posted along side my content. But I would like to see real traffic stats to see if there is any viability in all of this.
Posted using Partiko Android
yeah traffic and stats ! someone pls do a google analytic style dashboard dapp for steemit. good for content creator and advertiser to track their performance.
PS :
Autopost post from instagram to steemit EASILY, new dapp share2steem | Get daily upvotes from s2s and 287 users who activate unique double curation! | Let’s onboard 1% of insta users, and show them the possibilities with steem !
Naa I'm good, sorry that wasn't my intention!
Not read ONO, seems like they could have something on Steem....
Traffic stats? Good luck :)
I would have to see how a redfish would benefit from ads. I understand how whales and trending would. If there was a way for the least of us to also benefit I. Would be all in
I also understand it would be a matter of degrees
Not all ads would be targeting your wallet. Redfish are likely to be more active than whales and so there might be more targeting data that they show up on. Would you watch a game preview for .1 STEEM?
Yes redfish are more active then whales but as an advertiser a whale would be more cost effected to advertise with.....maybe !
That’s what I mean if we bring ads in and it is structured right we all win. I am 100% for that.
I like the idea and think it needs to be done in order for steem to progress further.
I'm assuming not all Redfish are totally broke outside of Steem, but I take your point - a large wallet is a lure.
I think it's interesting to think about how it will pan out, and write about it of course :)
We need to talk about it. Get all ideas. And put a plan teoghter.
It is the future and I don’t t see any way areound it.
The lure of capitol is to great.
Something like that is the future. It's that or every "investor" rushing towards the exit in the end. Something's got to give STEEM value.
Posted using Partiko Android
Yeah I've seen your comments on the subject recently and know you think there is value here. Are you a coder? Let's make a browser extension quick!
Hold on. We're not sinking, yet. This has to be approached with care. Is DClick ready for use, yet?
True :)
@dclick seems to be rolling, but I'll have to look into it. Thanks for the mention.