Testnet for Steem proposals is live and ready for testing
Initially the proposal system can only be tested via the command-line wallet
We've launched the first testnet for creating and voting on Steem proposals. Currently, to create and vote on proposals, testnet users must use a command-line version of the wallet. We hope that some of the user interface frontends will quickly add support for proposals so that it becomes easier to visualize how the proposal system works in practice.
Steem proposal documentation
An overview of the functioning of the Steem Proposal system can be found here: https://steemit.com/blocktrades/@blocktrades/proposing-a-worker-proposal-system-for-steem
The special account steem.dao is the funding account described in the above post. Donations made to this account on the testnet are used to fund proposal payouts.
[Note: I've found that some of the specs below still reference a URL when it should be a permalink now for the link to proposals. We'll correct the docs, but I wanted to add this note in the meantime]
The specifications for the Steem proposal API is here: https://github.com/blocktradesdevs/steem/wiki/SPS-API-Plugin
The new blockchain operations are documented here: https://github.com/blocktradesdevs/steem/wiki/SPS-operations-in-transactions
Docs on steempy (python-based scripting): https://github.com/blocktradesdevs/steem/wiki/SteemPy-based-script-for-SPS-testing
The new proposal-related commands added to the Steem cli-wallet are documented here: https://github.com/blocktradesdevs/steem/wiki/Worker-proposal-functionalities-in-cli_wallet
API node available for frontend integration of the proposal system
An API endpoint is available at sps-blocktrades-testnet-api.blocktrades.info:8090 (as both webserver-http-endpoint and webserver-ws-endpoint). SSL connections are not supported.
Please note that the current API node is not intended for general testing of steem operations or ready for heavy traffic. It should only be used for testing web pages that interact with the proposal system.
steem-js branch supporting proposals: https://github.com/blocktradesdevs/steem-js/tree/sps-develop2
steem-python branch supporting proposals: https://github.com/blocktradesdevs/steem-python/tree/sps_support
How to join the testnet with your own node
To build your own node for the testnet, build from this branch of our repo:
https://github.com/blocktradesdevs/steem/commits/sps-develop
Make sure you build with this cmake flag: BUILD_STEEM_TESTNET=ON
To join your own node to this testnet, put this in your steemd config.ini file:
p2p-seed-node = sps-blocktrades-testnet-seed.blocktrades.info:2001
As a potential starting point for any UI that wants to create an interface for voting on proposals, here's the info displayed by the bitshares wallet:
Another thing I think would be useful in the Steem-version of this would be to "colorize" refund and burn proposals (a proposal that has either steem.dao or null as the "receiver") in the display. For example, colorize refund proposals "green" and burn proposals "red".
so beautiful, how does this not have more comments? my mind is on fire thinking of how advanced this is, how many proposals steem will have, and how this is a gamechanger for crypto. Please text me when you see this 619 500 3748 (my steem phone number)
I don't text much, but you can send me a message via steem.chat (it will arrive to me as an email, and I can join the chat after when I'm around). Or if it's a general question about the proposal system, you can also post it on our github repo as a question/issue.
Is anyone running a public RPC node?
EDIT: it's sps-blocktrades-testnet-api.blocktrades.info:8090, correct?
yes
The font-page is basically done.
P.S. Using a mock data service obviously. Didn't have a chance to use get my hands on testnet yet but follow the exact same principle you described in this and original posts. Will make the interface first, then apply to real data. I hope keychain will implement it as well.
@yabapmatt @aggroed @harpagon keychain is needed in new steem worker proposal system, please checkout parent comment above
OH THE IRONY
You know that there's now a system to turn HOPES into action . You can even make PROPOSALS!
I bet a site like @steempeak would make it happen they seem to be the only ones developing useful features. But how does Steem Proposal handle two different people wanting to complete a proposal?
A proposal not only describes the work, it also describes who will get the reward for the work. If two competing groups want to do the same proposal, then two proposals should be created, where each proposal names who to pay, then voters can vote on which one to fund (or both if they want to fund two competing solutions).
What if the proposal was made by a user that wants a feature to be developed instead of the worker and there are more than 1 entities/groups that wish to complete it?
In BitShares, proposals of that form are usually discussed by the community first (not as ablockchain-level proposal, but just as an idea). They call them BSIPs (forget what it stands for).
Then anyone interested in implementing the BSIP can make a blockchain-level proposal with themselves as the worker that references the BSIP. If there are multiple groups that want to compete for it, they can each create their own bid/proposal to do the work.
I see, that way Steem also has a huge advantage isn't it? It's way easier for the community to discuss the so-called BSIPs because this blockchain is literally built for that.
You just planted 0.10 tree(s)!
Thanks to @fuadsm
We have planted already
8095.54 trees
out of 1,000,000
Let's save and restore Abongphen Highland Forest
in Cameroonian village Kedjom-Keku!
Plant trees with @treeplanter and get paid for it!
My Steem Power = 24892.35
Thanks a lot!
@martin.mikes coordinator of @kedjom-keku
BSIP stands for BitShares Improvement Proposal. A BSIP is a design document providing information to the BitShares community, or describing a new feature for BitShares or its processes or environment.
From: https://github.com/bitshares/bsips
You just planted 0.11 tree(s)!
Thanks to @fuadsm
We have planted already
8425.81 trees
out of 1,000,000
Let's save and restore Abongphen Highland Forest
in Cameroonian village Kedjom-Keku!
Plant trees with @treeplanter and get paid for it!
My Steem Power = 24885.38
Thanks a lot!
@martin.mikes coordinator of @kedjom-keku
So only proposals are ... WORKER says they're willing to do work.
But sounds like like there's a lot of need for COMMUNITY desires for work to be done.
Anyway if a WORKER used the steem proposal system to say they'd make an interface how would you and the community react assuming they could actually react because there's no interface to react with? haha
Did you just create software without a way to use it? haha
I jest... but when i think about this I think hey maybe you would be willing to support a system that made an interface for the product you created probably worth a few votes or a few hundred steem to see your work come to life specially since I'm guessing you plan on using your product to make more Proposals.
But then would you just jump on the first proposal wondering if there will be anyone else willing to make a proposal? Maybe you hesitate, maybe you're not completely sold on their proposal. Sounds like what you'd love is to say "I'm willing to fund a proposal that does a/b/c/" And maybe several people come in and say I'll do just that! And now you have a match.
You're familiar with BitShares and DAO most of us are not. (p.s. thanks for not calling it DAO on this post) how do they handle this stuff in practice.
I'd like to see the proposals come to life... what you have done is essential but as we know... no one will use it until there's an interface and I'm keen on seeing it move past blockchain idea into functional usage. There are way too many supposedly genius ideas that never move past core user into the realm of ... oh this is actually a good product.
lots of people speak command line actually
"Lots of people" ... I know there's DOZENS of them!! haha
As a non coder but someone very interested in the evolution and development of the blockchain, this is great. Seeing the technical progress is awesome despite not understanding the finite details.
So this is open for the programmers with nodes to participate? Open and decentralized. Love it.
Go blocktrades!
Posted using Partiko iOS
Yes, anyone who can build a testnet node is welcome to connect up to the testnet. In practice, the testnet will primarily be used by programmers who would like to support proposal creating/voting in their web and mobile interfaces and witnesses who would like to "test" the proposal system itself.
great
Design by committee, required for worker proposals to function in an organization, is a way to get a really mediocre and unfocused product. I think they were misguided in BitShares, and they're misguided in Steem.
Taking social problems, like "who should lead?" (and by "lead" I mean "make decisions about allocating shared/group resources") and punting on addressing them by tossing them at some "wisdom of the crowd" solution (which isn't, even; it's stake-weighted as usual, right?) isn't going to produce good results. It's just going to be the same popularity contest that witness voting is right now.
In about 1971 Jo Freeman wrote an excellent article called The Tyranny of Structurelessness that outlines the problems with organizations that have no declared structure. Structure still emerges, but it's never the one that benefits the most people. This is that same mistake being repeated. Decentralizing the development of Steem is a bad idea. It's probably also a bad idea leaving it in the hands of Steemit, Inc. Steem, surprisingly, has product-market fit, and has since before I became aware of it. The core value proposition is solid; and it has absolutely nothing to do with esoteric nerd-features like SBD, escrow, the internal market, et c.
I am convinced that with a system like this we'll see more inward-facing changes that matter only to people who are so deep into the Steem forest that they are only aware of the trees: tweaking of minutae that matter only to a tiny, tiny fraction of the shrinking active userbase. Any available resources should be focused on making Steem easier to use for the average redditor, who doesn't give two fucks about four fucks about reward curves, order books, et c.
I really hope that I'm proven wrong, but the only people with the means, motive, and opportunity to both a: successfully submit viable worker proposals and b: get people to actually fund them are, in my experience, the kind of people who know very, very little about designing compelling user-facing products. Please, prove me wrong - but until that happens, I'm going to believe that worker proposals lie on the more useless end of the spectrum of the many inventions of Larimer.
Apologies for the rather late reply on the matter; I haven't been on this website very much lately and just saw this whole "worker proposal" thing gathering steam.
Not saying I agree with everything but voted it up because it was a nicely written argument.
And yes we should focus on
I think you may be conflating some problems with the fact we do almost nothing to bring in serious amounts of users. And maybe we don't do marketing because retention is low and it's perhaps low because as you said above we need to make this place easier to be a part of
Why do you think worker proposals wont lead to any of that.
Great, finally! Thank you for taking this on @blocktrades and team. We need a little advancement around here!
When they said no, blocktrades cant pull it off, when the doubters doubted and the schemers schemed, hiding in their dark little rooms with their crooked noses and greasy hands, i stood up in defiance and proclaimed with vigor:
Haha. Anyways.... i just wanted to say good job. lol
Awesome works guys! Excited to see this happening so quickly and looking forward to what it adds to the community.