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RE: BlockTrades beginning development of Steem Proposal System
From talking to people in the community and my personal preference I would first like to see what is done with donated money from Steemit/community then mess with the author rewards. I could be on the minority side here but isn’t this something we can put up for a vote community vote to see where the funds come from?
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Ultimately such decisions are decided by "stake weight" in Steem, since stake weight elects the witnesses and the witnesses choose what version of the code to run.
Now, we could run some kind of poll to get opinion, but any poll counting just the number of votes would easily be gamed by users who have many accounts (one user I believe controls at least thousands of accounts).
Another option would be to create a post with two comments and let users compete by voting up those two comments. This would result in a "stake weighted" vote that would more likely reflect the witness voting that ultimately determines what change is accepted. One comment would be for just taking money from donations and the other would be to do it from author rewards as well.
Getting agreement from Steemit for both options from Steemit would also be important, as they are paying for the work.
https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@emrebeyler/dpoll-development-updates-result-filtering-and-voting-audits
dpoll just added a bunch of new features to help the voting process be as legit as possible. We could run a vote where:
The biggest problem with such a poll is that it won't necessarily reflect the poll that "counts", which is the stake weighted poll that elects witnesses.
I think it's fine to hold such a poll (although I think it can easily be gamed), but I think it would only make sense to do so if a stake weighted pole was also conducted simultaneoulsy. A stake-weighted poll can't be gamed, and it's the poll that really counts, at the end of the day.
Running only a gameable poll that is likely to generate results different from a stake-weighted poll is only likely to lead to dismay when the "poll that counts" yields different results.
I think a stake-weighted poll would work, your idea of doing two comments and the one with the most Steem power behind it wins. Reminds me of how PoW coins figure things out with hash power.
Ok, I'll make up a post after lunch (people are waiting for me now) with the two options. Assuming Steemit is ok with the results, we can let that decide.
I'll stay on with you @Theycallmedan. This issue should be subject to vote and @dpoll could etter handle that, Let me add here that:
Dpoll was made exactly for this sort of thing. This needs to be put to a vote!!
ya i liked dpoll
Oh ok cool we have @dpoll nice is it https://dpoll.io ? lol lemme guess, "get paid to post Polls and ask questions!" lol like @peerquery"
A vote would have been nice. ... I'm a little uncomfortable with the fact that rewards can be unilaterally changed and redirected elsewhere.
What's to stop a malicious actor from redirecting rewards into their own wallet?
I own multiple accounts that fit that qualifications, so others probably do too. I think its best for witnesses to present their thoughts on it, and we vote for witnesses accordingly.
Nope, still not going to work... Plenty of dolphin and even whale account below 50 rep, rep cant be a factor, and also a brand new whale who just powered up recently also deserved to vote, no matter how many posts they have ....
SP should be the only factor we count... otherwise thse 1 person 1 vote shit is gonna get gamed so hard ... its not fair to start changing the rules after 3 years of stake weighted votes... qwe need to keep thinsg stake weighted while voting.,... if peopel wnbat to influence the vote more they HAVE to buy or earn more Steem! This is just ANOTHER BADLY needed incentive to need to buy more steem, dont let the socialists and anarchists around here who are poor ruin this for us... dont listen to all the weak peopel who just dont want anything to ever have a price tag associated with it, theers too many people who think its bad that you can BUY more of youre vote influence and yet thats EXACTLY how steem works and its a system we need to KEEP.
Lets face it, the MAJORITY of the users, if we listsned to them, would rather us give them all the money while they did as little woprk as possible, and the average user thinks they are way more valuable than they are... In reality at any time a hoard oif new users can come in and severely dilute the current user base so much so that anyone influential before is going to appear so small now, that they just wont ever matter again... so we need to stop listsneing to the crowd mob mentality... all these minnows and plankton who think their collective voice is worth just as much as one whale, when its liek... no dude... even 1 million plankston who dont even have 1 steem is worth less than 1 whale with 2 million steem, and that one whale is so much more valuable to us... theres limits to what a bunch of useless content can give us, and the only real luck will come to our platform when we get power users who will come from OTHER platforms to come sprinkle in their talent to steem from Reddit and Youtube and Twitter... I mean i cant wait to see Twitter users using @zappl with its 140 character limit to post very simple one liners and end up getting paid $100s evebn $1000s for them over steem, now thats going to bea game changer.... but the current user base and all the things they want to "vote" on? Its just so lame...i feel like the devil cave hermiut in Red Dead Redemption 2 who longs for the age of kings and despises teh age of democracies.... because honestly theres way too many people out here on steem who think they are SOOO valuable... but in reality we need less hoardes of low quality shit posters and more high quality users, even in smaller numbers, because just 1user on instagram these days can have More followers than all the users on steem... just one instagram post of kanye west or kim kardashian will have many tiems more users than all of our blockchain haha jkust oen comment ofthgeir can have mroe atcivity than our entire chain.... thats something top consider when realizing steem's full growth over theyears.... SO WE CANT listen too seriously to the demandsof a few un important early adopters, and not so early adopters who are simply hanging around with a few hundred steem, hoping that every steem will be worth as much as a bitcoin one day.... these people on steem are goingf to be demanding upvotes for their "cont3enbt" when we should be putting that money away towards a lot of other more useful projects and dapps... so sad how much money has been going to peopel who neevr desreved it and it just inflated their egos... liek welfare... i just hope whales and dolphins become more sriuct with larger upvotes and delegations... ned was just giving out delegatio liek CANDY to all sorts of losers who NEVER deserved it and it makes some of us mad how careless he can be, giving MASSIVE amounst fo delegation to random users out there while AMZINg projects liek dlux.io go un delegated to with ned ignoring the BEST chance for steem to gaiun traction in the VR gaming world... i mean so many great projects for steem which ned , using dedlegation, can FIUND for FREE and what does ned do? he goes years without any updatyes and then FINALLY makes some posts recently now that the priceis low, but still it took the users to rais emoney themselve sto payf or nmerkating.. i just anm SO happy if ned powers down and sells his stake, i just doubt that he is doing that.... but its freaking everyone out and its like haha ned is hnot gonna sell at this low or a price, and we see mysrery accounts liek @ben powering up 2 millipn SPP after ned powers it down haha anyway.... im so high
@blocktrades Is it possible to use the SBD Inflation to pay for worker proposals?
In some sense, that's one of the two proposals being voted on.
Please follow up with this stake voted poll, we need these polls for taking real accurate polls on steem, with comments using decline payout for the different options users can vote on....
Also please dont take more from the authors when were already hurting so badly from low prices, we need you to take that money from curation instead because no one notices curation and they wont hurt. Also Authors arent any less important than witnesse so why not take a few percent from every section? Very strange youd just take it all from authors when too much is taken from that anyway... when authors are the most important part of steem and create all the content that even CREATES the reason for witnesses.... not the other way around... thats why this is called USER SUBMITTED CONTENT... and how reddit got to quarter of a billion users.... its the author rewards which need to go UP not down... Please take the money from curation and a little bit of all the categories, Just take 2 % from each category and no one will really notice the difference!
Dpoll guy is working on implementing an accurate stake-weighted poll, so I guess it will be ready by the time the more controversial aspect of this SPS is voted on (assuming I'm not wrong about the ultimate results of the current poll).
The fact that Steemit has offered to donate funds is great, but those funds will run out relatively quickly, and I am fairly certain that donations from the rest of the community won't come close to funding any real projects, at which point this system will be mostly dead. IMO it must be funded from inflation if it is to be sustainable past Steemit's donation.
Ultimately, rewards are viewed in USD terms, so the "bet" here is that if we put serious funding towards development/marketing/etc it will increase the market price of STEEM such that rewards are increased in USD terms.
I disagree. Here's why. We reward folks for posting, curating, and witnessing. That's what rewards go to. Those rewards are the inflation. Decreasing the rewards paid decreases the incentive to do those things. Author rewards particularly are already too low. Look at retention, and consider that reducing rewards to authors will make retention worse. Creators of content are the spigot from which ALL the value of Steem originates, and we're losing creators.
Further, I agree that donations won't work. @ned's generosity will get us going, but stable funding will be necessary to create value in Steem.
Votes are stake weighted. Capital gains are stake weighted. Increase in the price of Steem as a result of development funded via SPS will produce capital gains, and directly benefit stakeholders. This will not directly inure to those earning rewards, only indirectly when stake holders curate and pass on those gains to creators.
Stake receives the benefits, and should be the source of the funding. Tapping rewards will harm Steem, and put downwards pressure on price by making worse the problems we have with content quality (trending), and witnesses (many of whom barely, or do not, break even now) who we need to keep the blockchain secure. Decreasing incentive to witness is the last thing we should be doing.
I have said it better here. Please have a look and correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm not, let's not decrease rewards, but fund development directly from those that will benefit from it, without reducing incentive to produce other benefits essential to Steem.
Thanks!
Agreed
I agree, plus I would also like to see the needed inflation pulled from other places than only from author rewards. Pull some percentage from author, some from witness, and some from sp inflation.
I agree. While the proposal is great in general, I'm not sure if "Proposal funding to come from author rewards pool" is a good idea, especially if it really only comes from there. After all, this kind of major change should be decided by some votes. @dpoll is an option and I actually hope @blocktrades first build a good voting system on their own.
Please seem my comments to the parent comment you are replying to.
I'm with Dan here, the author pool is the community's life blood, while there are many whales who could easily cover these costs, especially if split among many.
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Yeah.... I dont think you would have a lot of success with the "donation" route. The distribution right now is extremely one sided, the richest accounts getting most of the STEEM, meaning that you can throw away any notion of the "community" donating anything.
Best you can hope for are donations from a extremely small number of, lets call them, charitable whales, like yourself, Blocktrades, Acid, etc.. But even those donations would remain extremely small.
I would rather go with the taking from the reward pool option..
If @blocktrades could maybe answer, how would a reduction of author payed inflation look like in relation to post payouts? The stats presented are overall token distribution.
If I'm not mistaking, what they are suggesting would result in a 20% reduction of post payouts across the board.
That's correct, assuming no resulting increase in Steem price (which is probably too much to hope for in the short term at least).
A 20% reduction in author rewards would devastate retention.
Please reconsider this. See my post here, and school me, or let's move forward without destroying the community we yet retain.
20% reduction. Holy crap! I uuh... wow. I might need to rethink a lot of things regarding Steem.
Wait, an aprox cut of 20% per post on author side?