As always, a well thought out opinion. I appreciate your perspective.
I think one thing that is obvious is that the Tron team really needs to have someone with them and speaking for them that knows the Steem blockchain. Roy and Justin do not understand the concessions (is that the right word?) that are being offered by the witnesses. They also don't understand the requirements of implementing a fork or even the most basic aspects of a power down.
I think the scariest thing about all of this is seeing how fast they will try to slap together a fork and the lengths they will go through to push it through without any kind of testing. The level of danger to the integrity of the chain in that one stupid decision is astounding.
Well, I think, like others before them, they don't realize the decentralized aspects of this chain. The top 20 also have to answer to the community in some regard. Another thing that powerful newcomers seem to have trouble with is the idea that they must communicate with the community at large in a respectable manner regardless of the stake that they carry, unless you would rather fight and be harrassed your entire time here.
To allow these exchanges to get away with their actions and to furthermore assist them in minimizing the repercussions of said actions goes against the very fundamentals of the cryptocurrency movement and devalues everything
Agree, 100%.
I also think (after this has been settled), there may be more questions and issues, going forwards
(you might get a giggle from my humorous video take on events - not including today meeting)
I agree completely with your sentiments, but must take issue with your proposed solution.
"My thoughts are that we should under no circumstances allow this fork to go live."
We don't have any such power. The exchanges remain powered up, and in possession of the stake requisite to effecting governance of Steem at their sole option - which they have already demonstrated willingness to do.
We are being allowed the appearance of such power by the exchanges, but that is only an illusion. The decentralization of Steem has always only been an illusion, since during @ned's tenure as CEO of Stinc, he always had the ability to undertake governance of Steem instantly at his sole option. He never did, and that has made the illusion of decentralizaton credible.
That illusion is no longer credible, as it has provably been dispelled.
If the exchanges and Tron execute code that renders their accounts incapable of voting for witnesses, then Steem can become decentralized (to such extent as it has appeared to be in the past, FWIW). Failing that, Steem has become the possession of Tron.
That's all the options there are. Sun has two choices: execute code restricting his accounts, or live with destroying the value of his stake.
Very true, I am hoping the exchanges got a real awakening with the fallout of their recent actions, but the fact that they aren't powering down makes me think we're likely to see another fork being pushed through. Honestly if they hardfork... I think our only real option is to have the community elected witnesses continue running 22.1 and fork off. It is what it is.
There would be serious legal complications to this course of action if the exchanges decide to do this, particularly now that they have publicly stated they would remain neutral.
They made the mistake and it should be on them to make their clients whole WITHOUT resorting to a vote that would change the economic dynamics of the entire chain, particularly when they didn't have permission from their clients in the first place to make such a change.
We don't have any such power. The exchanges remain powered up, and in possession of the stake requisite to effecting governance of Steem at their sole option - which they have already demonstrated willingness to do.
That figure is a Steem (the network software) statistic that tracks how many blocks were produced compared to how many witnesses were scheduled recently. It's there mostly to indicate forks, so a forked witness or group of witnesses will automatically stop producing if their software sees that the participation rate is say less than 25%. It's a setting in the software's configuration file.
Ok. Well, my guess was wrong. I see we have ~half the consensus witnesses, but I fail to see why the exchanges couldn't quickly change that. They remain powered up. Pretty sure that's why.
If they need to get liquid Steem, they can use the internal market to buy it with Steem Dollars or buy it for Bitcoin on Bittrex with Bitcoin. It might tempt me to part with some Steem if I see 2016 prices again.
I wouldn't mind that, but with the order books always being so notoriously thin, I doubt we'll see it. Hopefully with the new exchanges claiming intentions to list us and support us, we might see some movement in that direction.
That's not good. That means if they decide to vote again they may be able to get to 17 while we're sleeping and implement some hasty fork for a quick powerdown that messes up the chain.
As these exchanges haven't powered down i'm of the opinion that something is going on in the background. Maybe tron devs are writing code for a HF and the exchanges will re proxy their votes to get it through. This would free their funds within 24 hours and allow Justin Sun to pay them their 30 pieces of silver.
My advice "Don't trust tron or sun of tron" He's underhand and devious and from his actions so far nothing is out of the realm of possiblity he will sink to to win
We know they are working on a HF, I linked to the meeting above where they confirm it. I wrote the post to warn people about exactly that, we should not bail them out.
As always, a well thought out opinion. I appreciate your perspective.
I think one thing that is obvious is that the Tron team really needs to have someone with them and speaking for them that knows the Steem blockchain. Roy and Justin do not understand the concessions (is that the right word?) that are being offered by the witnesses. They also don't understand the requirements of implementing a fork or even the most basic aspects of a power down.
I think the scariest thing about all of this is seeing how fast they will try to slap together a fork and the lengths they will go through to push it through without any kind of testing. The level of danger to the integrity of the chain in that one stupid decision is astounding.
Well, I think, like others before them, they don't realize the decentralized aspects of this chain. The top 20 also have to answer to the community in some regard. Another thing that powerful newcomers seem to have trouble with is the idea that they must communicate with the community at large in a respectable manner regardless of the stake that they carry, unless you would rather fight and be harrassed your entire time here.
Agree, 100%.
I also think (after this has been settled), there may be more questions and issues, going forwards
(you might get a giggle from my humorous video take on events - not including today meeting)
Steem Wars part 1 - The empire has a hissy fit.
https://steemit.com/hive-100421/@lucylin/nxkuvibq
I agree completely with your sentiments, but must take issue with your proposed solution.
We don't have any such power. The exchanges remain powered up, and in possession of the stake requisite to effecting governance of Steem at their sole option - which they have already demonstrated willingness to do.
We are being allowed the appearance of such power by the exchanges, but that is only an illusion. The decentralization of Steem has always only been an illusion, since during @ned's tenure as CEO of Stinc, he always had the ability to undertake governance of Steem instantly at his sole option. He never did, and that has made the illusion of decentralizaton credible.
That illusion is no longer credible, as it has provably been dispelled.
If the exchanges and Tron execute code that renders their accounts incapable of voting for witnesses, then Steem can become decentralized (to such extent as it has appeared to be in the past, FWIW). Failing that, Steem has become the possession of Tron.
That's all the options there are. Sun has two choices: execute code restricting his accounts, or live with destroying the value of his stake.
We don't have a choice.
Thanks!
Very true, I am hoping the exchanges got a real awakening with the fallout of their recent actions, but the fact that they aren't powering down makes me think we're likely to see another fork being pushed through. Honestly if they hardfork... I think our only real option is to have the community elected witnesses continue running 22.1 and fork off. It is what it is.
There would be serious legal complications to this course of action if the exchanges decide to do this, particularly now that they have publicly stated they would remain neutral.
They made the mistake and it should be on them to make their clients whole WITHOUT resorting to a vote that would change the economic dynamics of the entire chain, particularly when they didn't have permission from their clients in the first place to make such a change.
They would be fools to create that precedent.
Either fools, or too big to fail.
Wrong, thankfully. https://steemd.com/witnesses
You're saying this figure includes Steem on exchanges?
That figure is a Steem (the network software) statistic that tracks how many blocks were produced compared to how many witnesses were scheduled recently. It's there mostly to indicate forks, so a forked witness or group of witnesses will automatically stop producing if their software sees that the participation rate is say less than 25%. It's a setting in the software's configuration file.
Ok. Well, my guess was wrong. I see we have ~half the consensus witnesses, but I fail to see why the exchanges couldn't quickly change that. They remain powered up. Pretty sure that's why.
If they need to get liquid Steem, they can use the internal market to buy it with Steem Dollars or buy it for Bitcoin on Bittrex with Bitcoin. It might tempt me to part with some Steem if I see 2016 prices again.
I wouldn't mind that, but with the order books always being so notoriously thin, I doubt we'll see it. Hopefully with the new exchanges claiming intentions to list us and support us, we might see some movement in that direction.
To be clear, is exchange STEEM voting right now, or powered up but not voting anymore?
Still powered up, but not voting.
That's not good. That means if they decide to vote again they may be able to get to 17 while we're sleeping and implement some hasty fork for a quick powerdown that messes up the chain.
This.
They made a gamble and got their collective penises stuck in the cardoor. Let them deal with the consequences. Looking squarely at you, @ned.
He's just lurking around trying to get this token swap to happen so he gets the rest of his money.
As these exchanges haven't powered down i'm of the opinion that something is going on in the background. Maybe tron devs are writing code for a HF and the exchanges will re proxy their votes to get it through. This would free their funds within 24 hours and allow Justin Sun to pay them their 30 pieces of silver.
My advice "Don't trust tron or sun of tron" He's underhand and devious and from his actions so far nothing is out of the realm of possiblity he will sink to to win
We know they are working on a HF, I linked to the meeting above where they confirm it. I wrote the post to warn people about exactly that, we should not bail them out.
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You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking
Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:
Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness to get one more award and increased upvotes!
Congratulations @clayboyn! You received a personal award!
You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking
Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:
Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness to get one more award and increased upvotes!