You are viewing a single comment's thread from:
RE: Is Nationalism to blame? (It sounds like you mean Imperialism)
You don't understand, to NPCs you are a Nazi
...err, a Not "C" (C being Communist)
All other things, capitalism, nationalism, imperialism are all part of being a Not-C, and are therefor bad and should be gotten rid of.
The side that opposes nationalism is not opposing it for moral or logical reasons, they are opposing it because they have to denounce everything else and get their way.
So, although this was a very good post, and well laid out moral understanding, you are still, in their eyes, a Not-C and must be condemned, no matter how far the goal post needs to be moved, or how much they need to mangle english to get there.
Funny thing is C is all about Imperialism. They think they have the right to FORCE others into their ideology.
No no no no no
C is all about bring our "BETTER" system to all the people.
And sometimes there are like... these people, who are bad, that do not want us to bring a better system to the people, and so, you have to push through.
^_^
(or, just what you said)
No, they don't force. They free people from suppressors and than those people join out of their free will.
You can say this is the wrong way, and it certainly can spiral out of control (exactly the same mechanism as nationalism btw. ) but "have the right to force" is not the general viewpoint. (Of course you will always find some fringe group for everything.)
LOL. They don't force? You mean they just let people that don't agree with them continue to live how they want? NAH. I don't think so. If you think so you haven't been paying much attention.
They force what narrative people are able to talk about. They in some cases FORCE people into reeducation camps (which is recommended in many literature and guidelines on "revolutions"). Some cases they just kill them.
You are wrong.
Hm... I think you didn't get it that I showed the perspective of the people you are accusing. They (generally of course, as always) don't think of it as forcing. I did not claim this was true.
It is like "pro life" people making a walk of shame for woman in front of abortion clinics don't think of themselves as forcing those woman to anthing. They only try to convince. Telling that it is wrong etc.
Now that is definitely wrong.
I oppose nationalism because it tells people that person X is better than person Y because X was born in country Z. (which I find unmoral)
I oppose it because hightened nationalism always seems to end in (attack) wars. (wich I find extremely unmoral)
I oppose nationalism because, like it or not, there are (Trump voice) HUGE problems we have now that can only be solved on a global level, not on nation state level. People who emphazise nationalism generally play down those problems or downright call them "fake news". (logical reason)
I do not include people like you in "The side that opposes"
That is a logical and fair view of nationalism.
But the... i will call them leftists... don't have any such arguments. Currently they are saying white american's bad. They throw anything they can, such as white american's had slaves... although white american's were among the first to free slaves. But that isn't brought up. It is just, "those people are bad"
An example, they call everyone that doesn't agree with them "Nazis" (not-Cs). They do this because Nazi is a bad word to most people, and so, they are using the worst word they know to make them feel as bad as possible. However, they do not know what the word means, or what it implies. Bernie Sanders said he was a national socialist. Nazi stands for National socialist.
Now, about nationalism.
A person needs to have a fair amount of self esteem. Too little and they cannot function. Too much and they are a pain to be around, usually getting people hurt by not knowing their limits.
Having pride in your group is important. It is the glue that holds the people together. Too little and the group falls apart. Too much and they get ideas of being better than.
However, it is really T.H.E.M. who take the patriotism and turn it into war. By creating false flags, and then saying to the patriots, "they are attacking us", T.H.E.Y. have gotten us into many wars.
No it doesn't.
It simply says to have pride in your nation. To take care of your nation. Yet to have pride you also need to have a reason for such.
Can that be weaponized by propaganda? Sure. Yet the same can be said of every Socialist and Communist attempt as well.
In fact the boogeymen people like to hold up to point out the woes of Nationalism people like to conveniently leave out that those places also considered themselves a socialist movement. Yet ultimately because they were focused on expanding and controlling outside of their own borders they were not Nationalists. They were imperialists. Yet back then imperialism was viewed negatively, so they are not going to come out claiming to be imperialists.
I think pride here is the important point.
Pride never seems to stop at the (positive) nationalism and always go towards the negative nationalism Chauvinism (which often turned into e.g. Hitler)
It is the difference between inclusive and exclusive nationalism.
For example you could say I am an inclusive nationalist. I am a fan of our Grundgesetz (constitution) and want as many people as possible to have it's protections. Immigration? Everyone's right. Everyone can be German, if they want.
But do I feel pride? No. Why? Putting aside that a lot is still bad, how can you feel pride towards something like a state?? I might feel pride that we uphold our constitution standards, but in the thing itself? I did not wrote a single word of it. I did not build a single meter of Autobahn. How could I be proud of it?
Than there are the "rights", the exclusive nationalists. They define Germany first point as a difference to others. You can't just come here, and becoming German? No way! This is our country, our Autobahn, our language (which is always one the biggest jokes).