RE: The “Pit of Despair Experiment” Trump is Recreating
If Americans are so worried about the amount of people wanting to enter the US, this is what I'd love to see: the people educating themselves about the horrifying foreign policy the government has been enacting in their name for over 50 years.
If the people don't want so many Hondurans, for example, trying to gain entry, then perhaps take a look at the history of America shitting all over Honduras, taking its best farming land, tying up its economics and its resources in knots, etc, etc, etc, etc. Colonialism hasn't gone anywhere, it's just conducted offsite these days.
I really feel for Americans as I think the cold hard light of coming to realise that the US is not exceptional is a very hard thing to deal with, even when your country isn't on fire in a bunch of other different ways.
But I hope that extends out to Americans educating themselves about American foreign policy. The ongoing relentless determination by combined US/UK deep state forces to undermine and repress any country which wishes to be sovereign. They even did it to my country, Australia, in 1975 when the Whitlam Labor government was dismissed.
I can only hope that now this current border situation is in the light (which yes has been going on for decades - how bizarre is that?) that people will begin looking deeper into what is creating so many people seeking asylum. It's not just climate-related.
Sigh. Peace for all people, all around the world. It's a most radical revolutionary wish, I must say. And in the meantime my heart breaks for those kids.
@sue-stevenson
But apparently it is. The countries they are escaping often will shoot or imprison trespassers.
So apparently some fools (you may or may not be one) actually think the U.S. is the exception and that it shouldn't be allowed to say who is allowed to enter it's country.
Post a picture of your house, post your address, tell people it is open and let ANYONE that wants to live there, eat your food, etc come on in.
That is what you are asking of the U.S. Not going to happen. YOU FIRST. Destroy any locks to your house. Pass out flyers to the homeless with pictures of your home and tell them they can stay there.
See what happens.
Or you could just look at how messed up it is making Europe and use the brain in your head and realize "Gee this is a stupid idea."
I'm not interested in engaging with you further if you can't express your anger without calling me a fucktard and brainless. There's Twitter if I want some of that.
I didn't call you a fucktard or brainless. In fact I used the word IF. I try not to waste my time doing that. Though if that is all you can do to escape, it doesn't surprise me.
It is pretty normal for people these days to treat emotion and feelings as facts. When they encounter facts and don't want to be wrong they usually fall back on name calling, or some escape clause.
In this case you called yourself names. ;)
If all I wanted to do was call people names I likely would use twitter. I actually do try to change minds. I never expect it to happen instantly though as it is quite uncomfortable to most people to be wrong.
I know because I still feel that way too when I am wrong. Though it has gotten better when I came to the conclusion that being wrong is NOT a bad thing. It is an opportunity.
If a person is never wrong then they can never learn.
Though if escape is what you seek have at it, but it won't be due to me calling you names. ;)
I realized I wasn't clear. I don't actually think you are fucktard or brainless. I wouldn't bother talking to you if I thought that was the case. ;)
No worries, bro. It's all good. I find myself in the unfortunate position of wanting to discuss and debate these things while having the nervous system with a constitution of a wet paper bag. I collapse when criticised :)
It's way too 3am here to discuss all this stuff right now but I'm glad that while it gets heated on Steemit the underlying civility is far better than on Twitter :)
Knowing and admitting our problems is the first step to being able to do something about them. :)
Good thing you can speak it.
That doesn't mean it will be easy. Most things worth doing are not easy.
Yet since you have admitted perhaps you'll get better and better at noticing when that happens and the more you notice it and the quicker you notice it then it is likely it will become less and less of a problem.
Good luck with that.
I fight my own battles inside my own mind so I am describing my personal experiences about things I notice in myself. Maybe it'll work for you as well.
Also this has been going on since the late 70s and was extended in 2002 by a Democrat lead congress.
Trump actually is the only one trying to fix some of this.
Yet people are acting like he is doing something different. Well to some degree he is. He is trying to correct some of the separating children from family issues that have existed since the 1970s.
Yet, he is being blamed for it. Total bullshit. Anyone that blames him for policies from the 70s is an idiot.
It also is not just Americans. There are a ton of people in Europe witnessing the stupidity of this idea first hand and starting to push back as they see how it is destroying their countries.
@dwinblood
Aslyum seekers ( who are not illegal immigrants) who arrive at border deserve due process before getting accepted/rejected.
While they were waiting for the processing there was no additional need for inflicting trauma on the little kids.
I also have not seen any proof that it actually was done at a port of entry. If they choose to crawl through the window rather than go through the door that is a big difference.
As an American, I have worked to inform myself about history of foreign intervention and I acknowledge that we have some terrible records. These abuses occur outside the borders, so some may seek asylum within. The fact is, I think America is exceptional in the initial devotion to personal liberty, but the further we've gotten from the original independence day, the further we've gotten from freedom. But, our distorted freedom has been seen as much better than other countries, thus many people attempting to immigrate.
Coerced participation in ever-growing social welfare programs makes the acceptance of people who choose not to apply for citizenship so dangerous for the liberties of the citizens. I would be happy to see open borders, but only with the removal of the welfare state. Because I know so many people who care about others, I have confidence that our community would support one another.
My personal impression is that the combination of increasing entitlements with decreased enforcement of border security has increased the amount of people seeking asylum, perhaps not just in the U.S.-- Italy's situation comes to mind but I have less familiarity with their situation.
If people really started educating themselves about government and abuses by their government, the US would be a one party system : only Republicans would remain (or at least one without a sizeable Democratic base). After all, the Democrats are responsible for going to war over slavery; starting the KKK to intimidate and harass blacks; opposing the 13th (abolishing slavery), 14th (Reconstruction), 15th (civil rights) amendments to the US Constitution; implemented segregation, instituting Jim Crow laws, fighting to prevent the passage of the women's suffrage amendment; and filibustering the 1964 Civil Rights Act. If people really started educating themselves, I'm not sure how anyone -- white supremacists and male chauvinists aside -- would support a political party with such a pattern of civil rights abuses that continues to the present day with handouts that keep many minorities chained to the economic plantation.
That being said, if the US isn't exceptional as you say, then why is it that people are willing to cross thousands of miles of dessert, risking life and limn to arrive at its southern border? I think you ought to rethink your argument. It lacks all cogency.
And I think you need to read some history about US foreign policy and interventions in sovereign countries, over and over, for the past half-century. Perhaps those people trundling into the US don't know any better. If Americans don't even know what their government does in their name in other countries, there's a likely chance that they don't know either.
After all, America is exceptional when it comes to nukes, and frying innocent civilians with great regularity, and inserting itself into democratically elected results to get the results it needs. America is the only country to drop an atom bomb. Over and over and over and over and over this stuff happens.
My argument is so cogent that I just can't discuss this any further. The mindfuck that is so many otherwise good people not having a clue of how your government runs rapaciously through the world - it just kills me.
I'm quite well-versed in foreign policy, and I promise you, I know 100 times more about the government of the United States than you appear (in fact, I know more about most governments than most people, so I'm not sure what you're talking about). And no matter how much you hate America for whatever reason (maybe you had an ex American lover who left you or maybe you attended a third-rate American college and majored in sociology and are now angry at America because you can't find a job that pays you more than $20,000 a year?) no one country has done more good for the world than the USA. You do realize that bomb dropping saved the world from speaking German and the extinction of Jews, right? The axis powers had plenty of opportunity to end the war, so the US was forced to intervene with its bomb for the sake of humanity when they didn't and after Japan attacked the USA at Pearl Harbor. In addition, her economic prosperity and models of capitalism have removed more people from poverty than any other country or economic system on the face of the planet. The USA will remain the most powerful and important country the world has ever seen for the long-foreseeable future, no matter how much you hate it.
Oh, and your "argument is so cogent that I just can't discuss this any further?" LOL. What does that even mean? Oh, I know, that usually means, you have no idea what you're talking about and so that's how you "bail-out" of the conversation.
You are fucking deluded, bro. I'm not talking about post-WWII. I'm talking about the past 20 years. Obama's administration where he got to be the drone king has only been superseded by this current one where a bomb is dropped every 12 minutes in your name.
And see, one more person who can't but resort to ad hominem attacks. Cos I couldn't possibly have my own thoughts on the horror that I see going on unabated, no matter which of your tribal red or blue teams is in power. I must have been jilted by some American lover. I mean, how fucking old are you anyway?
Don't bother responding. I'm not reading or responding to any more comments from this post from now on - which originally was about how the US government goes about treating people arriving on its borders. It isn't about your right to secure them. It's about the way it's being done that's the problem. And yeah, yewh, spare me the tribal issues about which party did what. I know it's been a law but not enforced since Clinton. I'm beyond sick of hearing about tribal level bickering when both parties are as fetid and pus-ridden as each other. You're all in a trap of division and conquering if you keep continuing this Red vs Blue game. I can't bear any more of it right now.
Uhm, the past 20 years is post-WWII. I didn't make any "ad homimem attacks" against you in the previous post either. I pointed out a few reasons why you might be displaying as much irrational anger as you are. I think I must have nailed it regarding the lover, because it seems I must have touched a nerve as you now seem to have come unhinged a bit (shocking: an unhinged socialist, imagine that).
I'm really amused by your comments about dropping bombs. Your "argument" is that during the past 20 years, the Obama and Trump administrations have dropped some bombs (keep in mind that is only 9.5 years not 20). The flaw of course, is that you are under this wildly wrong impression that the military just goes around dropping bombs for no reason at all. It seems (again, not surprising given your seemingly Marxist predilections), that you'd prefer the world be overrun with ISIS (or Nazi) terrorist who blasphemize the Quran for personal gain. At some point you need to ask yourself, why do you continue supporting Jihadi terrorists and why the US has dropped a single bomb at all? All the bomb droppings could stop tomorrow if those who chose to use Islam for personal gain and power would stop their nearly indiscriminate murdering.
Again, you've simply said, "don't bother responding" because you don't want to engage in a conversation, where you know you will lose the argument. But's it's self-evident that you've already lost -- and not just the argument.
You are the one who needs educating, you have a right to your opinion, but it’s my right to tell you how wrong you are in this instance.
A border less world is a dangerous world, there will never be peace amongst humans, someone will always want what you have and they’ll fight to get it. The United States has the highest standards of living even among its poor, of course the whole world wants what she has, but to what end? Our own citizens should come first and immigration is a privilege that must be earned just like my ancestors earned theirs! Freedom is not free!