Two Radically Different Versions of God (As Told By Ancient Philosophers)

in #philosophy7 years ago

Is your God all-knowing and loving, or does he not give a fuck? Good evening everyone in the Steemisphere! As you may know, my current class for school is in Philosophy (also known as a bunch of old dudes trying to find the meaning in everything).

Today I got to learn two completely varying views Neoplatonism and Aristotelian in origin that aim to prove the existence of God—which I found extremely entertaining. Don't be confused by the big words, one is Plato (I believe in an eternal soul guy) versus Aristotle (everything is science dude).

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Where We Came Up With "Being Made in His Image"

So there was this guy named Saint Augustine, who was a Bishop from a place called Hippo—who vibed off of Plato's ideas, eventually adopting them because it made sense in what he thought God was like. You see, Plato had this concept called the Theory of Forms that explained a bit about creation.

Plato believed that in order to make anything in the universe, you needed some kind of plan kind of like a blueprint or a recipe. So every physical thing in the world was a reflection of it's source—a perfect truth. Augustine liked what he saw, because that would mean that people are the aftermath of a perfect truth as well, and God would be that master crafter. Fueling Christianity, we are made in Gods image (form/idea) of what he wanted to make. This is where the argument arises that if God is perfect, and he made us—doesn't that also make us perfect?

Plato also thought of time being a property of matter before Einstein thought it was cool. Another aspect of forms accepted that the creator (of whatever was being made) had to exist outside of the time it took to finish the creation. In other words, when an artist draws a picture—they exist before and after the drawing was made. Augustine was like "word!", that means God existed before we existed, while we are existing, and after we (humanity) are done.

Beliefs like these helped with moving religion forward, as God is everywhere and immortal! He cared and made us in perfect design—what a nice guy!


Proving God With Science

Having a different approach based on Aristotle's beliefs, came another guy name Saint Thomas Aquinas (the Catholic Friar not the Apostle) who said if a God exists then science can prove it! Like Aristotle, Aquinas recognized that physical matter didn't just appear from nowhere but had to come from a cause. He made several points now known as the Cosmological Arguments—proving once and for all that God is real.

1) Motion
2) Causation
3) Contingency
4) Regress

When we look at Motion and Causation, we determine that something had to get the metaphysical ball rolling. In order for something to move, it just had to be moved by something else. In the same light where everything caused had to have a causer. God is a being that couldn't be caused or moved, bootstrapped everything that is in motion and existence now. Aquinas didn't believe in infinite regression or the idea that things could go on and on forever, there needed to be the beginning. That beginning was God.

Contingency is where things start to get a little darker. We trace back all of these causes to the one being, the source... and Aquinas discovered that God is the only necessary being as the only thing that absolutely must exist. Everything else, could have existed or not—including humans. God moves a bunch of shit around and BOOM! Here we are, likely by accident as only one of the possible configurations. No design and no reason, the meaning to life? There isn't one. God exists either way, and could be a sentient alien... Or he could be a rock.

The Regress argument is likely the one that stirs up the most emotions in humanity's role in the grand scheme of things. This is the argument that states that we can only be sure of a thing, once we can determine the opposite. We know there is happiness because sadness exists, there is up because there is down. Unfortunately for us, that means that in order to understand what God is, he must be the opposite of other things. This means that God cannot be other things than himself—it also means that if he is perfect than we cannot be.

We are the sinners!


I like school, how about you? Do you believe in a God or Multiple Gods? Or maybe your belief is even stranger than the two I went into today. Flying Spaghetti Monster anyone? This blog only serves as an application of lessons I am taking in Philosophy and is not intended in any way to be an argument on Religion!


References:

"Arguments for the Existence of God". (n.d.). Philosophy of Religion. Retrieved from http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/theistic-proofs/

Crash Course. (2016, April 11). Aquinas and the Cosmological Arguments: Crash Course Philosophy #10 [Video file]. Youtube. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgisehuGOyY

Dumcombe, D. (2011, October 11). Plato and Early Christian Thought. Wordpress. Retrieved from https://daveduncombe.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/plato-and-early-christian-thought-2/

Seattle Pi. (n.d.). Platonic Influence on St. Augustine's Philosophy. Retrieved from http://education.seattlepi.com/platonic-influence-st-augustines-philosophy-5566.html

The School of Life. (2016, March 11). PLATO ON: The Forms [Video file]. Youtube. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgotDFs6cdE


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According to Plato there is a God with a big letter G and a small letter g. What this ancient philosopher referred to the god with small g is exactly the same as we would refer to as creation in a modern sense.
Within this context of distinguishing the small letter g god and the big letter, G, God, Plato brings up the Demiurge (god with a small letter g) or ’’universal mind’’ (nous) as a symbolic metaphor for the creative principles in the universe. Another word for this would be ’’awareness’’. These principles are basically the forms which are infinite in and of itself. So there is a world of mind that can be known by anyone. But this reality is basically an illusion, a way for the Demiurge the first emanation from being (awareness) to experience its own reflection.

But according to Plato and Sokrates in the dialogues put forth by Plato, the discussion of God with a big letter G is futile because as Sokrates summed it up thus ’’when you define God you defile it.’’. Nevertheless these great philosophers gave us a clue to the mystery, a clue that would give us a better way to approach the ’’principle of principles’’. Their description of God was a triad ’’the one, the beautiful and the good.’’

According to Proclus one of the earliest neo-platonists which probably had in his keeping, some of the last remnants of a complete Platonic theology. In the eyes of Proclus, Plato took the position that God with a big letter G was a being beyond mind. Because being was beyond mind, Plato attacked both science and philosophy. Which relies their field of study to reasoning and to the mental faculty.
Plato tried vehemently show with most of his analogies and symbolic metaphors, ’(’the theory of forms, the analogy of the divided line, the allegory of the cave, and in the analogy of the sun) that there was a conceptual nature in the universe that went beyond thought. Not only human thought but ’’nous’’ the mind of the universe.

And as you are probably aware of already, in the allegory of the cave, Plato tries to show that the Good (symbolized as the sun) is the cause to everything and is completely unknown to the cave dwellers (human beings) living inside the cave (the reality of becoming). The good is only known to them by an artificial light (symbolized as the fire in the cave).
Here Platonism follows Buddhism saying that; the state of ’’absolute reality’' is something to experience not theorizing. And the moment you theorize it you get lost in the world of shadows. To reach that state according to Plato we sojourn on an ascension towards that state from illusion towards the good. Which means that Plato stands for a ''positive idelaism'', this means that everything and everyone is in a constant growth towards the good. And that is awesome!
The question is then; what is it that our soul must experience to understand? What is the end purpose for every single human being? What is the formlessness within the forms themselves?

More Plato in our lives :) :)

First things first @metasophical,

Thank you for the amazing comment! Just wow <3

"But this reality is basically an illusion, a way for the Demiurge the first emanation from being (awareness) to experience its own reflection."

This is a view I think about quite often. As the belief in only one being, the "oneness"—where all seperation is a curtain from the truth. If I'm not mistaken, the cave dwellers in Allegory of the Cave didn't see (were aware of) the flame inside the cave, only the shadows it gave off—an even further step removed from the truth. An asencion towards the good c: I like that concept.

I completely agree when you say;

"Here Platonism follows Buddhism saying that; the state of ’’absolute reality’' is something to experience not theorizing."

This is actually the reason why I use stories about my own experiences primarily to explain concepts or lessons that I want to pass forward. I see it far too often (especially online) where someone explains how to do something but not the thoughts that went behind it. It becomes difficult to validate the authenticity of the statements—as if they may be hearsay, or copied.

Before I got into Philosophy officially (school), I always aspired to have the ideals in my mind play out for real, while manifesting and growing towards my ideal self. The more I learn, the greater the love and serenity I experience. Lol, great question. I don't have the answer, but I would think that it is to raise everyone up to newer understandings, and expand towards knowledge. As for the formless, hmmmmm... that's one to ponder.

Action comes after thought, and I think that emotion precedes thoughts to fuel it.

Plato is the boy! Thank you again for giving me more to think on!! :D
With love,
@shello

😁 I need to get you on the radio to talk philosophy.

Now that... Would be an adventure! :D

Good old Aquinas, the Angelic Doctor. The Causeless Cause argument is particularly appealing to me. This is just a brilliant piece. You wrote it in such a ELI5 (Explain It Like I'm Five) way that made it so appealing to read!

I actually saw this post from @clayboyn's resteem but I've definitely followed you. Great work.

Hello @rasamuel!

After reading your comment I wanted to find out why Aquinas was referred as the Angelic Doctor. I am anything but disappointed :D A vast spectrum of wisdom that he was seen as being sent from the heavens!!!

A causeless cause huh? This feels like quantum mechanics territory!

I'm glad that you enjoyed this piece. I feel that if a person truly understands something they are able to explain it to anyone. I enjoy some things on Reddit like ELI5, Today I learned, and Glitch in the Matrix. I'm glad you found me through @clayboyn as I also enjoy many of his posts <3

With love,
@shello

Definitely with you on Aquinas. On the ELI5 too. Now there's a quote about that I can remember. I think Einstein. If you can't explain it simply then you don't know it well enough, something like that.

Cheers,

  • Ras

Memes aside, Einstein was pretty cool. That's actually the quote—word for word. Wah!

:D learning is the best!

Lol. Epic memes haha. Can't believe I got the quote perfect 🙂. Cheers!

Important things stick c; Cheers muh dude!~

Hence the quote, “Christianity is Platonism for the masses” ~ Friedrich Nietzsche.

Personally I'm universally agnostic, because I believe anyone who thinks they know the truth about the existence of gods, a god or otherwise, have really just argued themselves into a corner.

The Aristotelian idea that the Prime Mover could be anything is appealing, but the idea that there had to be a beginning is itself a flawed supposition.

Hahah Nietzsche and his nihilistic themes, I want to look more into him as well c:

To know that a god exists as of now can be only founded through subjective experience—lacking proof to others. I dig it! Being agnostic is interesting as you aren't all holy or no holy, I personally believe in something, not sure what it is though.

Our god could be a spoon! I'm also not okay with a definitive start—I like the black hole theory right now :D

Neitzsche is misunderstood by his fans and detractors alike I find. I may not agree with everything he wrote, but I think understanding his ideas is important to getting a grasp on the current zeitgeist.

We all have beliefs I guess. I just hope mine are flexible enough to flow with theweight of evidence.

As for subjective experience, I've had plenty of those, but cannot accept it as proof, even for myself.

To be honest, I've never actually studied Nietzsche directly—he deserves a second look. His ideas hold relevance in today's world? I'm curious to find which ones!

Mhmm, although we may all have different beliefs, I can vibe with you some on our own subjective realities. Things that I experience I also don't accept immediately as truth—but rather as the awareness of a possibility.

Whether they have relevance is not the issue, so many groups active in the modern world are informed by and draw inspiration from his ideas, for better and for worse, that understanding the source of those ideas helps one better understand them.

Learning an ideas history provides great models for insight c:

Interesting article. And as to you such variant: In each of us there lives a part of God, that is, to some extent, each of us is God.

Интересная статья. А как Вам такой вариант: В каждом из нас живет частичка Бога, то есть, в какой-то мере, каждый из нас Бог.

Thank you @cranium! I believe that we are all Gods in our own right. Responsible for the parts of the world that grace our awareness. Great perspective :3

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Thank you so much! :D

Very nice story
I like it this philosophy
I appreciate your post.....

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wonderful story post..
thanks for sharing...

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