RE: Psychology Addict # 23 | Existential Psychotherapy – When Psychology & Philosophy get together.
Had to read this twice.. still not sure I understand it all correctly. There are two things you mention, that particularly made me think: ..we are not predetermined by our past or personality.. not sure if I can agree to that.
I think our choices are very much determined by those things. Wouldn't this freedom of choice mean then, that i.e. past experiences have no effect? And just judging by the people I have lived with, I am convinced, that their personalities very much influences their choices and decisions.
The other thing is the relationship between freedom and anxiety... for me personally it feels reciprocally proportional, meaning less freedom equals more anxiety and vice versa.
Of course there is also a possibility that I got it all wrong.
Ow @reinhard-schimd, thank you very much for taking the time to read my post 🌷
So, let’s address your most thoughtful comment! There is a branch of psychology (behaviourism) that is deterministic and argues that our past defines us not only now, but also in the future. Meanwhile, existential psychotherapy (what we are discussing here) argues that we do have the capability to step away from this predetermined ‘path’. Also, please note that here, contraryly to psychoanalysis, there is no looking back. This is much more about the now and the next! Therefore, because humans are seen as ‘verb-like’ - always undergoing transformation- our personalities are not seen as fixed and therefore, not what defines who we are as a whole.
Your reflection about the relationship between anxiety and freedom is thought-provoking. Again, freedom, according to Kierkegaard is inherently within us; even if one does not feel free one is free because one is human. He says that even not making choices is a choice; so, perhaps this is what prompts anxiety in your case. Not feeling free, limits your choices, which is one of the three main causes of anxiety and fear according to this approach: 1 - living in a world we did not choose, 2 - the constant need to make (or not) choices, and 3 - the realisation one is moving towards an end (death).
This is not about getting it right or wrong :D it is mainly about the perspective one has of life and existence. And this is how existential psychology and philosophy understands it and presents it.
All the best to you 😊
Thank YOU for taking the time for your detailed answer!
The approach of existential psychotherapy is new to me, so it looks like first I need to learn more about it. My first wife (long long time ago) was (is) a psychiatrist and so I might still be stuck in some old thinking patterns from that time...
Which immediately brings me back to the issue of how personality determines things. She loved to argue (since she was super intelligent and usually won). I'm very much the opposite and hate arguments. Hehe.. typical Libra. For whatever its worth in this context ;-)
So, as much as a human being may be free per se, I don't think we really are as a member of a society or in relationship to others. In fact, her level of freedom was higher in my opinion, as she wasn't shy of conflict resulting of her choices.
I understand, that we have *the capability to step away from this predetermined ‘path’. *. I just wonder if we are able to walk a new one, based on choices that have nothing to do with things we have experienced up that point. Some people for instance are more daring than others... I don't know if we have these things in our genes or if its determined by the environment we grow up and live in. I could see a 50/50... So, they'd make different choices than someone who is timid and careful. Somehow I don't understand, how who we have become at a certain point in our life, cannot have an influence on how we proceed..?
Keep thinking of the three main causes of anxiety... guess my reasons would be slightly different. Plus I'm happy, that I generally don't have much of an anxiety "problem". Of course, particularly later in life, one becomes aware of ones finiteness. So far it does not scare me and there were even times, when I thought it would be ok for it all to be over..
Hm.. 1 - living in a world we did not choose.. chewing on that one. I feel very privileged that I could make a living as a self employed artist for 30 years. I am grateful, that I live in a safe and prosperous part of the world and that I have a wonderful relationship. So, within my options, I got it pretty good and in a way, where I am now is a result of past choices. Would the fact, that certain choices were not even available, like having a mansion at lake Como mean then, that I live in a world I did not choose?
Oh well, I better choose to get some work done ;-)
Have a wonderful Christmas weekend!
I do believe that personality traits are a result of both the environment and genetic factors. In certain cases I believe the environment plays a much more ifluential role (I could dig out some studies to back this up :)).
As for your final point, the way I see it, it is the following: in the big picture (according to this approach) one has not chosen this world; still, the more one feels one lives through their own decisions (the excercise of freddom) the less anxious and sad one becomes. In fact, this is something largely explored in research conducted on anxiety and mood disorders. One of the commom aspects in the lives of those afflicted by such kinds of distress is precisely what psychologists call entrapment - the very feeling of lack of choices, or control over one’s life!
@reinhard-schmid, thank you so much for your incredibly insightful comment. I trully appreciate you taking the time to read, write and debate this topic. All the very best to you.
Again thank you for taking the time to deal with my comment... not so sure its insightful. Rather my longing to understand, which has always been a driving force.
Spent the evening with my parents yesterday and when I woke up this morning, I thought about them in admiration and how they have made some really good choices in their lives. I had these thoughts independent of our discussion here, but now they come back again... ok, I guess that's a different story, but it really got me thinking.
Interesting, what you say about entrapment. Found myself in such an unhappy situation for many years, long ago. Although I ended up there "by choice" (or was it through manipulation?), it turned out to be a dead end street... thank god I found the strength eventually to turn my life around. Or maybe I just got lucky... sometimes I really think a higher force had mercy and gave me a helping had.
Wonder what psychologists suggest to get out of the entrapment. Or if there even is a general way to approach that...
Dear @reinhard-schmid, how great to hear you have managed to overcome the time in your life when you felt 'entrapped', which inevitably prompts my interest in how you managed to do it. You see, some people never do and succumb to major depression and turn to medication. But, as for your question. Yes, in psychology, cognitive-behavioural therapy has successfully treated individuals in not only a state of entrapment, but also of co-morbid disorders (such as depression and anxiety). The empirical evidence for such outcome is aplenty. Maybe this should be a topic for a future post! :)
Best.
Hahaha... not so sure, I want to tell too much about myself here in the broad public ;-)
To satisfy just a bit of your curiosity, I'll make a very long story very short: in the end, I think it was the first conscious and well reasoned decision I ever made. In my early 40s there was a lot of junk piled up and I thought by myself... chances are, that I'll live another 40 years. And I simply didn't want to spend them like that. Was hard though...
Not sure, I understand much of cognitive-behavioural therapy, so maybe that would make a good post indeed!
I wil most definetly come back to this incredible response after the holidays (trying to stay away from the computer a bit for). You have discussed many relevant things here that made me think! Chat soon :)