I've never been able to hold crypto that is not locked up somehow, or too cheap to sell. So diversifying does not work for me, guess I don't look at money as something I need to save, it's something I play with
Iam getting really scared of lending plat forms, i have lost $400 in hextracoin, $300 in chaingroup, $600 in bitconnect graig grant you are my sponser on bitconnect, user name was jahmazin, iam asking you to check this out, this is the only way to make things right with everyone you did sposer and have lost as a result
if you like the idea and found it helpful please let me know here: btc wallet 12FDCrhk3ao3h2zKuwcW2LdgALt7KbJHC1
In order for Steem to be a security the interest has to come from the effort of others. The Howie test is supposed to be what determines if something is or isn't a security.
The SEC sued the defendants over these transactions, claiming that they broke the law by not filing a securities registration statement. The Supreme Court, in issuing its decision finding that the defendants' leaseback agreement is a form of security, developed a landmark test for determining whether certain transactions are investment contracts (and thus subject to securities registration requirements). Under the Howey Test, a transaction is an investment contract if:
It is an investment of money
There is an expectation of profits from the investment
The investment of money is in a common enterprise
Any profit comes from the efforts of a promoter or third party
In the context of an investment contract, a “common enterprise” is defined as an enterprise in which the fortunes of the investor are interwoven with and dependent upon the efforts and success of those offering or selling the investment or of third parties.
I don't know if Steem Power is a security but because it's an algorithm behind it rather than efforts of promoters or any specific employees it likely isn't one. The profit if it comes from an algorithm is guaranteed only by math. The other question is what would be the common enterprise? Steemit Inc?
If and only if Bitconnect really had a bot then they could not be a security but we never saw the bot which means it very well could have been one guy with a laptop.
I was telling Trevon the same thing...for now your reputation took a hit because you both are smart enough to know what bitcoin, ethereum, dash, monero ect are...so you should of known Bitconnect was a scam, but that referral money and price increase was too juicy and life changing to avoid. I say whoever watched your videos and then invested into BCC is an idiot, personally I do A LOT of research before putting money into ANYTHING..so shame on them...
You're doing what I told Trevon to do, decline payouts, upvote legit comments (not the copy and paste spam) and move forward like that. Eventually youll wipe the red off your ledger and living minimally is a smart way to not have to sell your crypto.
Good luck, declining payouts will aid in getting your reputation up, off to the next spaceship
bitconnect was and is not a scam in my opinion, and those who say it is should be willing to accept there are others who don't agree, there is no need to force the opinion of "scam" onto everyone. Bitcoin, DASH, STEEM, and ethereum ICO's have also been called scams.
You might be right, I personally have not done the homework, 95% of what I hear is negative so its like starting a youtube clip and its 95% dislikes...not a good first impression. But look the price is up 30% so someone sees value! Who know maybe in a year or 2 someone will put their blockchain to some other use and the price starts to spike.
The sad part is, the people who keep yelling scam are just like you. (Not picking on you in anyway. I promise.)
People who never invested a dime seem to have the biggest opinions. I personally invested into bitconnect (Craig is not my sponsor) and I don't blame Craig so how can someone who didnt invest blame him?
People (not you in particular) act like Craig and Trevon created bitconnect. - IMO thats giving them wayyyyyy to much credit lol.
It's not like they where out here selling drugs to kids or some shit, people have to take responsibility for their own actions.
If bitconnect was or is really a scam lets find the REAL people responsible.
Its like a witch hunt, as I write this i expect the "bots" to come flag me for having an opinion different than the status quo and THATS FUCKED UP....
Are you suggesting that only people who have invested money into a scam are the ones who can call it a scam? Using your line of reasoning, people who consider it a scam and choose not to invest shouldn't speak up about what they deem a scam.
And while we're on the topic, Bitconnect literally is a pyramid scheme. This graphic is from their website.
Note the shape of the graphic. Those who invested early received the highest rewards for bringing more people on board. They profited off people "below" them in the pyramid investing their money. And the pyramid scheme fell apart when there wasn't enough money to pay those at the top of the pyramid. Here's Wikipedia's description for what a Ponzi scheme looks like:
(Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme)
Let's see the similarities between a typical Ponzi and Bitconnect.
"Ponzi schemes require an initial investment and promise well-above-average returns." –– This was required of Bitconnect. A daily return of 1% is incredibly high.
"They use vague verbal guises such as "hedge futures trading", "high-yield investment programs", or "offshore investment" to describe their income strategy." –– Bitconnect mentioned the trading bot. It also described itself as a lending platform. It gave off the image that it's a legitimate investing platform.
"It's common for the promoter to take advantage of a lack of investor knowledge or competence, or sometimes claim to use a proprietary, secret investment strategy in order to avoid giving information about the scheme." –– The proprietary investment strategy in question here is BCC's trading bot. Did an actual bot exist? No one except the people who ran BCC knows. Hint: something tells me they didn't.
"Initially, the promoter will pay high returns to attract investors and entice current investors to invest more money. When other investors begin to participate, a cascade effect begins." –– 7% returns are crazy for Level 1 BCC investors. It seems to good to be true (because, well, it is).
"The "return" to the initial investors is paid by the investments of new participants, rather than from profits of the product." –– This is what happened, but some Bitconnect investors refuse to believe it because then they would have concede that they invested in a pyramid scheme.
"Often, high returns encourage investors to leave their money within the scheme, so the operator does not actually have to pay very much to investors." –– Bitconnect had you leave your funds on the lending platform for x number of days.
"He simply sends statements showing how much they have earned, which maintains the deception that the scheme is an investment with high returns. Investors within a Ponzi scheme may even face difficulties when trying to get their money out of the investment." –– Bitconnect showed how much money you had "earned." Seeing all this money would entice you to keep your money on the lending platform. Moreover, as I said above, Bitconnect held on to your investment for x number of days, thereby making it difficult for you to take your money out of the lending platform.
"Promoters also try to minimize withdrawals by offering new plans to investors where money cannot be withdrawn for a certain period of time in exchange for higher returns." Again, see above. Bitconnect held onto your funds for, at a minimum, 90 days, if I'm not mistaken.
Bitconnect had many characteristics of both a Ponzi scheme and a pyramid scheme. It baffles me that people didn't see it. And I'm certain that people like Craig Grant, Trevon James, and CryptoNick (among others) knew about this. Let's assume that they didn't know from the very beginning that Bitconnect was a scam. After waves upon waves of people comment on their videos telling them that Bitconnect is a scam, would they not look into whether they're invested in a scam? There's a lot of literature on the Internet explaining why Bitconnect was/is a scam. The likelihood that these big-name Bitconnect investors unknowingly promoted what is undoubtedly a Ponzi/pyramid scheme is zero.
And while the promoters don't deserve all of the blame, as the investors they drew in should've done more research, they do deserve legal action taken against them as they knowingly promoted a scam. Yes, we should certainly go for the people who created Bitconnect (if I'm not mistaken there are several class-action lawsuits against Bitconnect), but that doesn't mean that the people who knowingly promoted it are absolved of their sins.
And, no, I never invested in Bitconnect but I'm vocal about how it's a scam because I've done my research. I can still speak up about it without having invested money into it. After all, if I think something is a scam, why would I put my money into it?
Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. But choosing to express that opinion by spamming the hell out of someone's page is ridiculous (to me).
Especially when you didn't even invest personally. Now if Craig mislead you and you are upset and you came to his page to express that I would understand.. - but many seem to be just jumping on the bandwagon.
To act like you hate this man and want him to die BUT come to his page to spam every post - It's Insane man
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
There are even people in these comments who said THEY KNEW IT WAS A SCAM , MADE MONEY BUT STILL blame @craig-grant .
I just wish we could all express our opinions and get this fired up about some positive things lol.
all ICO's get called scams. bitconnect as a product POST ICO STAGE is being faced with legal action...you can't say that for Bitcoin, DASH, STEEM, and ethereum...because...well....they're not facing legal action.
Good to see you back, people must just use there brains, think for yourself.
Glad you back. I haven't done a post of steem over 6 months crazy how lazy I became, no excuse. so I just did a quick Halloween post. https://steemit.com/life/@muks/come-back-halloween-2017
Quit taking shit from all these morons who bought into the pyramid/ponzi schemes Craig. I watched just one of you videos on STEEM and already realized you were an arrogant dipshit. So I un-followed you and never looked back. Just because the rest lost some money cuz they believed you, is on THEM. If they aren't smart enough to know a scam when they see it then economic Darwinism should take its course! Same goes for these idiots who are trying to bring a class action against Bitconnect. I hope they get nothing and probably won't anyway!! Cheers
So are you saying that "economic darwinism" makes it ethical to trick people into handing over their funds? Yes you're right that people who invested in Bitconnect without realising it was a scam are idiots, but that doesn't make it ok to exploit them imo.
Yeah sure it's bad and unethical and all that shit. But it happened, time to nut up and learn what responsibility for your actions means. All people (especially men) need experiences like this to teach them, if they do not already have the capacity, to avoid making stupid decisions.
Reality is that ethical has nothing to do with it. Not everybody lives inside so bubble wrapped dome that protects them from "unethical" things. Crying to lawyers and the gov't robs you of the opportunity to become responsible for your actions. Teaches those the state will fix all their problems for them. No need to be a smarter person or a better investor. Just sue anyone that doesn't make you rich. I'm down 2k on XRL. Should i sue them? I can make a case they duped me and whaaaaa gimme back my money!!! But it's pathetic really.
Yes I totally agree about not going crying to the government etc and I would rather have more freedom than a restrictive playpen telling me what I can and can't invest in. However my point is that Craig should have been honest and told people they were investing in a scam. I'm not from coming from a legal perspective, but a moral one.
Did Craig really know tho? He was just as hopeful as anyone i bet. There were plenty of ppl out there sharing info on this project besides Craig. If Craig were "honest" and told ppl "sign up under me for this awesome scam," how many ppl would have signed up. (Hopeully none). It's the greater fool theory in practice. What is or isn't moral does not matter when people are blinded by greed and the promise of quick money. All are guilty that participate; from cryptonick/trevon/craig/carlos matos all the way down to the dudes that signed up the day before shit went bad IMO. Were you not one of these people either? If not good for you and it's nice that you are trying to understand ppl's feelings and whatnot but you have to let this whole thing burn and not get involved if you weren't already IMO. I'm only here to laugh at Craig cuz I knew he was a huckster from the video when he went to his parents house. 4 minutes in I thought "this guy is fulla shit." So just wanted to serve him a few jabs, but these ppl that fell for it also have a share in the blame.
Hey @craig-grant I actually made a post about this very topic earlier today, I actually referenced @trevonjb as opposed to you but same message. I'd actually encourage you to read it as I think it's bigger than you and Trevon, it's about Steemit itself...
In the post I basically say while I get that everyone hates you guys, and while I will say the way you guys made your money isn't really admirable, I think the Steemit community ganging up on people to run them off Steemit is a slippery slope.
Just look at how r/Bitcoin and r/BTC will downvote anyone who doesn't agree with them and that's not healthy for debate.
If your making Bitconnect or Davor videos I'm all for people downvoting you as I think that's spammy and scammy and I don't think its good for Steemit or the crypto community but if you wanna make normal content I don't really think its right for everyone to run you off of here and the reason being because it's a slippery slope. Today we run off Trevon and Craig but tomorrow someone says something we disagree with and then hey we ran off Trevon and Craig lets run this guy off as well. Where does it stop.
I agree with that sentiment. Again I get why people are comming down on you guys so hard on Bitconnect. I know you personally don't view it as a scam, I would disagree with that sentiment, however at the same time is you pitching Bitconnect really that much worse than Chris Green pitching his bullshit $3,000 Amazon Merch Program or Tanner J Fox pitching his bullshit over priced Amazon FBA program that is vague info that's really not going to help anyone...I suppose not really that different. Buyer beware.
Diversify. Bitconnect was only 5% of my portfolio.
I've never been able to hold crypto that is not locked up somehow, or too cheap to sell. So diversifying does not work for me, guess I don't look at money as something I need to save, it's something I play with
You can't afford to pay a lawyer, but you can afford to treat money like a toy.
Iam getting really scared of lending plat forms, i have lost $400 in hextracoin, $300 in chaingroup, $600 in bitconnect graig grant you are my sponser on bitconnect, user name was jahmazin, iam asking you to check this out, this is the only way to make things right with everyone you did sposer and have lost as a result
if you like the idea and found it helpful please let me know here: btc wallet 12FDCrhk3ao3h2zKuwcW2LdgALt7KbJHC1
Stay away from these "lending platforms" they are all scams
Agreed
Lmao. Thorncoin to the rescue!
In order for Steem to be a security the interest has to come from the effort of others. The Howie test is supposed to be what determines if something is or isn't a security.
See here:
Common Enterprise defined:
I don't know if Steem Power is a security but because it's an algorithm behind it rather than efforts of promoters or any specific employees it likely isn't one. The profit if it comes from an algorithm is guaranteed only by math. The other question is what would be the common enterprise? Steemit Inc?
If and only if Bitconnect really had a bot then they could not be a security but we never saw the bot which means it very well could have been one guy with a laptop.
♥♥♥
I was telling Trevon the same thing...for now your reputation took a hit because you both are smart enough to know what bitcoin, ethereum, dash, monero ect are...so you should of known Bitconnect was a scam, but that referral money and price increase was too juicy and life changing to avoid. I say whoever watched your videos and then invested into BCC is an idiot, personally I do A LOT of research before putting money into ANYTHING..so shame on them...
You're doing what I told Trevon to do, decline payouts, upvote legit comments (not the copy and paste spam) and move forward like that. Eventually youll wipe the red off your ledger and living minimally is a smart way to not have to sell your crypto.
Good luck, declining payouts will aid in getting your reputation up, off to the next spaceship
bitconnect was and is not a scam in my opinion, and those who say it is should be willing to accept there are others who don't agree, there is no need to force the opinion of "scam" onto everyone. Bitcoin, DASH, STEEM, and ethereum ICO's have also been called scams.
You might be right, I personally have not done the homework, 95% of what I hear is negative so its like starting a youtube clip and its 95% dislikes...not a good first impression. But look the price is up 30% so someone sees value! Who know maybe in a year or 2 someone will put their blockchain to some other use and the price starts to spike.
The sad part is, the people who keep yelling scam are just like you. (Not picking on you in anyway. I promise.)
People who never invested a dime seem to have the biggest opinions. I personally invested into bitconnect (Craig is not my sponsor) and I don't blame Craig so how can someone who didnt invest blame him?
People (not you in particular) act like Craig and Trevon created bitconnect. - IMO thats giving them wayyyyyy to much credit lol.
It's not like they where out here selling drugs to kids or some shit, people have to take responsibility for their own actions.
If bitconnect was or is really a scam lets find the REAL people responsible.
Its like a witch hunt, as I write this i expect the "bots" to come flag me for having an opinion different than the status quo and THATS FUCKED UP....
Let me guess you didnt invest anyhing either right? lol
but thanks @captincanary ill check out the video.
I did actually. Probably the most blatant scam I've ever seen.
So everyday you wait until craig post because you blame him? - makes Perfect sense man.
Obviously it wasn't a "blatant scam" or you would have not invested. Unless Craig is your God and you do whatever he says...
Are you suggesting that only people who have invested money into a scam are the ones who can call it a scam? Using your line of reasoning, people who consider it a scam and choose not to invest shouldn't speak up about what they deem a scam.
And while we're on the topic, Bitconnect literally is a pyramid scheme. This graphic is from their website.
Note the shape of the graphic. Those who invested early received the highest rewards for bringing more people on board. They profited off people "below" them in the pyramid investing their money. And the pyramid scheme fell apart when there wasn't enough money to pay those at the top of the pyramid. Here's Wikipedia's description for what a Ponzi scheme looks like:
(Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme)
Let's see the similarities between a typical Ponzi and Bitconnect.
Bitconnect had many characteristics of both a Ponzi scheme and a pyramid scheme. It baffles me that people didn't see it. And I'm certain that people like Craig Grant, Trevon James, and CryptoNick (among others) knew about this. Let's assume that they didn't know from the very beginning that Bitconnect was a scam. After waves upon waves of people comment on their videos telling them that Bitconnect is a scam, would they not look into whether they're invested in a scam? There's a lot of literature on the Internet explaining why Bitconnect was/is a scam. The likelihood that these big-name Bitconnect investors unknowingly promoted what is undoubtedly a Ponzi/pyramid scheme is zero.
And while the promoters don't deserve all of the blame, as the investors they drew in should've done more research, they do deserve legal action taken against them as they knowingly promoted a scam. Yes, we should certainly go for the people who created Bitconnect (if I'm not mistaken there are several class-action lawsuits against Bitconnect), but that doesn't mean that the people who knowingly promoted it are absolved of their sins.
And, no, I never invested in Bitconnect but I'm vocal about how it's a scam because I've done my research. I can still speak up about it without having invested money into it. After all, if I think something is a scam, why would I put my money into it?
Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. But choosing to express that opinion by spamming the hell out of someone's page is ridiculous (to me).
Especially when you didn't even invest personally. Now if Craig mislead you and you are upset and you came to his page to express that I would understand.. - but many seem to be just jumping on the bandwagon.
To act like you hate this man and want him to die BUT come to his page to spam every post - It's Insane man
There are even people in these comments who said THEY KNEW IT WAS A SCAM , MADE MONEY BUT STILL blame @craig-grant .
I just wish we could all express our opinions and get this fired up about some positive things lol.
all ICO's get called scams. bitconnect as a product POST ICO STAGE is being faced with legal action...you can't say that for Bitcoin, DASH, STEEM, and ethereum...because...well....they're not facing legal action.
It is a scam. You are lying to yourself and others or are a full blown retard.
I love this video it make sense
I feel bad that this guy was hit so hard. What is the actually utility of bcc? I don't think there is any...would be fateful.
Good to see you back, people must just use there brains, think for yourself.
Glad you back. I haven't done a post of steem over 6 months crazy how lazy I became, no excuse. so I just did a quick Halloween post. https://steemit.com/life/@muks/come-back-halloween-2017
DO YOU HAVE ANY INTENTION AT ALL OF REFUNDING YOUR VICTIMS? EVER?
AND YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING RIGHT NOW???
Craig Grant with your money Yacht - Jet Ski and a Captain
source: Luka you've been HACKED
the first rule of scamming?
NEVER..... EVER EVER EVER....GIVE MONEY BACK TO YOUR VICTIMS......
does this look like a man that lives in a trailer home?
hahaahahahahah.................
really Craig???
do not believe a word this man says!
he is a professional!!!
Quit taking shit from all these morons who bought into the pyramid/ponzi schemes Craig. I watched just one of you videos on STEEM and already realized you were an arrogant dipshit. So I un-followed you and never looked back. Just because the rest lost some money cuz they believed you, is on THEM. If they aren't smart enough to know a scam when they see it then economic Darwinism should take its course! Same goes for these idiots who are trying to bring a class action against Bitconnect. I hope they get nothing and probably won't anyway!! Cheers
So because you're smarter than somebody else it's ok to knowingly trick, exploit and scam them?
Did he steal the money from you? Or did you willingly hand over your funds? Economic Darwinism like i said. DW karma and shit though.
So are you saying that "economic darwinism" makes it ethical to trick people into handing over their funds? Yes you're right that people who invested in Bitconnect without realising it was a scam are idiots, but that doesn't make it ok to exploit them imo.
Yeah sure it's bad and unethical and all that shit. But it happened, time to nut up and learn what responsibility for your actions means. All people (especially men) need experiences like this to teach them, if they do not already have the capacity, to avoid making stupid decisions.
Reality is that ethical has nothing to do with it. Not everybody lives inside so bubble wrapped dome that protects them from "unethical" things. Crying to lawyers and the gov't robs you of the opportunity to become responsible for your actions. Teaches those the state will fix all their problems for them. No need to be a smarter person or a better investor. Just sue anyone that doesn't make you rich. I'm down 2k on XRL. Should i sue them? I can make a case they duped me and whaaaaa gimme back my money!!! But it's pathetic really.
Yes I totally agree about not going crying to the government etc and I would rather have more freedom than a restrictive playpen telling me what I can and can't invest in. However my point is that Craig should have been honest and told people they were investing in a scam. I'm not from coming from a legal perspective, but a moral one.
Did Craig really know tho? He was just as hopeful as anyone i bet. There were plenty of ppl out there sharing info on this project besides Craig. If Craig were "honest" and told ppl "sign up under me for this awesome scam," how many ppl would have signed up. (Hopeully none). It's the greater fool theory in practice. What is or isn't moral does not matter when people are blinded by greed and the promise of quick money. All are guilty that participate; from cryptonick/trevon/craig/carlos matos all the way down to the dudes that signed up the day before shit went bad IMO. Were you not one of these people either? If not good for you and it's nice that you are trying to understand ppl's feelings and whatnot but you have to let this whole thing burn and not get involved if you weren't already IMO. I'm only here to laugh at Craig cuz I knew he was a huckster from the video when he went to his parents house. 4 minutes in I thought "this guy is fulla shit." So just wanted to serve him a few jabs, but these ppl that fell for it also have a share in the blame.
Hey @craig-grant I actually made a post about this very topic earlier today, I actually referenced @trevonjb as opposed to you but same message. I'd actually encourage you to read it as I think it's bigger than you and Trevon, it's about Steemit itself...
https://steemit.com/steemit/@rulesforrebels/while-i-m-not-a-fan-of-trevonjb-i-think-we-should-think-long-and-hard-about-ganging-up-on-people-on-steemit
In the post I basically say while I get that everyone hates you guys, and while I will say the way you guys made your money isn't really admirable, I think the Steemit community ganging up on people to run them off Steemit is a slippery slope.
Just look at how r/Bitcoin and r/BTC will downvote anyone who doesn't agree with them and that's not healthy for debate.
If your making Bitconnect or Davor videos I'm all for people downvoting you as I think that's spammy and scammy and I don't think its good for Steemit or the crypto community but if you wanna make normal content I don't really think its right for everyone to run you off of here and the reason being because it's a slippery slope. Today we run off Trevon and Craig but tomorrow someone says something we disagree with and then hey we ran off Trevon and Craig lets run this guy off as well. Where does it stop.
crypto space is not for weak hands or weak minds
crypto space is not for weak hands or weak minds
SO BASICALLY ALL THE PEOPLE YOU SCAMMED???
ALL THE NEWBIES JUST GETTING INTO CRYPTO FOR THE FIRST TIME???
YOU REALLY ARE SOMETHING CRAIG GRANT!!!!
I agree with that sentiment. Again I get why people are comming down on you guys so hard on Bitconnect. I know you personally don't view it as a scam, I would disagree with that sentiment, however at the same time is you pitching Bitconnect really that much worse than Chris Green pitching his bullshit $3,000 Amazon Merch Program or Tanner J Fox pitching his bullshit over priced Amazon FBA program that is vague info that's really not going to help anyone...I suppose not really that different. Buyer beware.
All is not lost, whoever is determined will get their way.