Why I won't vote for you if you offer me something in return

in #rant8 years ago (edited)

In the last couple of weeks, I notice a curious trend - lots of newbies contacting me privately to vote for their stuff, submit their posts to Curie, in exchange for something or the other. I've even seen people jump into Curie chat to announce they are following @curie's trail and now they expect votes from Curie in return. When asking why, I learned that there are many curation initiatives of late that trade votes in return for something. That could be a follow, joining a trail, collusive voting, sharing rewards, or just outright paying them. This is of course the expected effect of a free market, and I encourage all such initiatives. Personally, there's no way I can be involved in such curation efforts.

A brief history of the market of creativity

The unusual thing about the arts or any creative profession is, there's no objective measure for success. Everything's dictated by subjective opinion. To make things murkier, there are often middlemen who don't understand what the artists desire, or what the consumers demand.

For millennia, the arts were financed not by the public, but by patrons of the arts. Artists had absolute creative freedom to push the boundaries of their medium. Through the renaissance, we saw spectacular creative works in all fields - whether it be painting, sculpture, music or literature. Many of these remain unmatched to this very day, which is strange because pretty much every other field has advanced significantly since then.

Some European and East Asian countries' governments subsidize the arts, which is why we've seen some European cinema, music, TV, theatre etc far surpass their American counterparts. Of course, that's a subjective opinion, but hey - this is a personal rant.

A corrupt free market could stifle creativity

So, what happens when the free market meets the Arts? Banal, rubbish content that's repeated over and over again. Particularly in the 80s and 90s, it was in the doldrums. The producers and financiers misguidedly assumed what the consumers wanted, while the consumers had to settle for bullshit. The artists were frustrated, and eventually had to give into the corrupt system.

Fortunately, things have improved, particularly with the internet. It is helping in bridging the gap between the artist and the consumer. There's still a long way to go, of course. This is the type of free market, free of middlemen, that might just work for creative professions. Of course, this requires the artists and consumers alike to mature. And that's where the problem with Steem lies.

We don't have artists as much as opportunists looking to cash in with zero regard for expressing creativity. This'll never be a fun publishing platform till people are incentivized to create engaging content, rather than make a quick buck. If that's the direction Steem takes, that's quite alright, but it's not what I joined Steem for. I joined because the decentralization has the potential to cut out the middlemen, connect the creator to their audience. I joined it to be entertained, to have fun.

To be clear, there are lots of great authors here. Particularly in the last couple of weeks, I've seen hundreds of seasoned bloggers and vloggers with great content stream in. They have my votes.

So, I will only vote on content that I like, that engages me in some way. It can be a silly meme, it can be a groundbreaking academic paper. But I will never vote for your post if you offer me something in exchange.

Finally, please note that this is a rant, please don't be offended or take it too seriously.

Addendum - I also wanted to address the social aspect, as I get it - someone will bring that up. All that's fine, but I would argue if your only communication with people is trading votes, that's not really being social, is it? I also understand, the free market is brutal, one does what they can to get an advantage. No problem there. Personally, I don't believe in such short term measures, and historically the great artists have always been those who have stuck their instincts. While I'm no artist, as a curator I'll stick to my convictions. At the same time, I'll respect yours, but urge you to think longer term.

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Yeah, I can totally get behind this. Finding one's niche is the key to success here, and the more you communicate and comment, the more chances people have to take the plunge and check out your stuff.

The follower you gain as one who stumbles across your stuff and likes what (s)he sees is far superior to the one you pick up from any kind of 'follow me and I'll follow you' trade-off by a factor of 100, IMO.

well said bro.
it is better for everyone to depend on themselves.
if Steemians vote for you that means they like what you give them and your writings are valuable than their votes indeed,
knowledge is the true key here not anything else.

Exactly.
The day content will be recognised the platform it will form a most amazing community. I have been saying these since a year
And what @curie is doing, is exactly that. Giving support to content creators since almost a year.

I understand. I'm a minnow and I'm having a very hard time getting noticed. I haven't joined any clubs so I'm out here in the ocean alone. Not easy swimming upstream.

Answered your own question fellow wee fishy, join a club or something. It's a pretty big ocean and it's good to stay in schools.

@bleedpoet
Thanks for your response. I will certainly consider it. Do you have any suggestions which one is the best??

I joined the PAL (peace, abundance love) group on Discord. It is a great place for minnows to learn about contests, associate with different languages and ask questions you may have. @gmuxx would be able to explain it better than I, check his page, he is a great champion of the movement, and a better guide than I.

Thank you my friend, I will check it out.

Like I replied to someone else, you have to be patient and persistent. Write posts you really care about, engage with the community, you'll be fine. I made almost nothing the first few weeks I joined. I've never asked anyone for a vote, and I don't have any whale friends. I'll never be a top author, but I don't want to be. My goal always was and I'm content to have created my own niche.

I joined today but I am surprised at how people beg for votes. This community should be about creating value and not another get rich quick scheme. Money should be reward of value created.

True, it also looks scammy and unattractive to new people who are considering joining.

But it is possible with consistency and quality posting to connect with a group of real life people from around the world who will like your content consistently over time. That will build up your reputation and Steem Power; the rest will follow.

Hi Suzie, I'm a minnow too and I decided I'd like to swim in a school and within a few days of creating my account I started to create my own school of minnows. I'm calling it Team #minnowtowhale The premise is community involvement. We're looking for minnows that know the value in helping one another. No silly stuff, no rules other than be kind to one another and no cost other than time spent helping one another grow. If you're interested let me know. Check us out here 👉🏼 Team #minnowtowhale
Great luck!

yeah I agree

Been there.Still fighting to be seen right now. I have found that the best way to get noticed is consistency of quality posts and commenting. You could also start a collaborative project with friends, something like steemsports or TheDailySteemit

Actually clubs on interests are a good thing. But when these interests concern only earnings - not so much anymore :)

Big fan of this post. I completely agree with how you want to spend your time and upvotes on Steemit. I want to give my upvotes to those who bring entertainment to me in one way or another. By trying to offer me something, follow for a follow, or upvote for and upvote, I am even less inclined to give you sanything. Just out good and interesting content and interact with the community and you will do well. That's all it takes!

Great principles.

There should be more people like that. But as you said this is a free market and people see Steemit as a bussines which in a sort of way, is a shame. Steemit should be passion :)

I love the free market and would not want any laws, licenses, regulations, taxes, permits to impose upon it. Yet I love principles even more and will embody them at all costs~*~

I agree! Ideally, we'd all be principled and the free market should be completely free. But while the free market is being abused by a few selfish assholes, there needs to be a better solution. But that's a whole different discussion :)

Agreed!
People are here for money, that's why they are going at this level. The moment they decide to be part of this community for content, money won't matter but it will come in your way.

THIS. I focus on making engaging content and though I'm not perfect at it, creating and building something that's truly of my own is worth more than just seeing a number. If steemit scales eventually that'll be the only way to "compete" as has happened on youtube.

I'm optimistic you'll be able to find your niche. The upcoming subcommunities feature (like subreddit) will help out a great deal. Of course, there'll be fierce competition when Steem scales.

I love what your username is.
Following you now.

The free market works just fine, or has the potential to. Just need to be a pure free market. Right now it's tending towards a corrupt, crony free market.

Literally true :(

The "free market" works "perfectly" when ACTUALLY free! ahahhahaah the REASON why it DOESNT work is because the "free market" is not allowed to actually exist/operate! hahahahahahhaa

Crowdsourcing allows niche markets to thrive. Pandering to the lowest common denominator allows the shallow to profit.

I upvote replies to my posts unless they are themselves begging for upvotes, or offering such a meaningless generic comment that I can't tell whether they read what I wrote. Quid pro quo demands are not cool at all, and while I see a potential use for offering such deals, it just feels distasteful.

Great post!

:^^)

Crowdsourcing allows niche markets to thrive. Pandering to the lowest common denominator allows the shallow to profit.

Precisely. Steem has absolute potential to be a free, crowdsourced market. Instead, we are tending towards pandering to the lowest common denominator.

As a newbie is so tempting for me to shamelessly ask for promotion, but it seems so unprofessional to do so on steem. This site is unique in that it rewards courtesy and respect. Including self respect. I'm resteeming this as a reminder.

Wow, I just put 5 cents on there! My votes are getting stronger! Was only 4 cents yesterday. Anyway... I just wanted to give you my (5) cents and say that I agree with you. However, as a newbie it is painfully difficult to make any meaningful progress unless you find a caring dolphin (or better yet a whale) to help you along. There are several I have discovered that will lend a hand. Spend lots of time reading their posts and become engaged with them. Make thoughtful comments and they just might start looking over your shoulder and nudging you in the right direction.

I like your name :) (and your comment)

Thanks. I appreciate that.
I wrote how I came up with my name in my latest contest, if you are interested.

Shamelessly self-promoting is fine as long as it's relevant or in an appropriate place. Going and solicitating on someones post however is disgusting.

That is what I would call shameless self-promotion :)

Yes, I've seen the same trend and it drives me nuts. It doesn't drive me nuts because it is occurring on SteemIt that is fine and that is their choice. However, It seems to show up on my post all the time. Not so much vote, because it isn't worth much, but for follows. The whole idea you follow me and I'll follow you.

I just find it very annoying, if you want to follow me then do so. If I want to follow you I will. If I don't then I won't. For the most part, I think this sort of thing won't really make you successful here. I mean I guess I could be wrong. But it just isn't for me!

nice this about this im new user follow me and vote also

Case and point!

what u mean brother

I hope that was a joke.

It wasn't.

I know - I was overcome by the irony.

So was I! The very thing this post speaks about and there ya go! I loled so hard at that.

Well, maybe Alanis Morissette should update her take on irony with such rich fodder...good to make your acquaintance in the meantime. 🤗

Same here. Sometimes you are reading things and the above just pops up out of nowhere ...like he wasn't even getting the jist of what the post was about. Nice meeting you through this LOL!

It doesn't drive me nuts, insofar as I understand and expect how a free market works. It's a given. As an avid consumer of creative content, however, it hurts me to be deprived of the true potential for creativity. I'd rather listen to Max Richter than Justin Bieber, for example, and it hurts me to know that Bieber has orders of magnitude more reach and resources at his disposal. Imagine what Richter could do with those resources!

I think at this point the only reason that it drives me nuts is because I'm coming back from a long absence and I didn't really engage much with community back then. Many of my recent posts do not have a whole lot of comments so I get excited when my phone pops up telling me someone replied and it is this type of message. Granted, this has happened less in the last few days.

Maybe, it's because it summer and I am away from teaching thus I'm craving social interaction!

Creativity always flourishes when there is no expectation. Its a common human tedency to gravitate towards rewards and thus most of the contents are created in expection of the revenue. Being a musician myself I can relate to the difference between the music I create for money and the music I create in sheer passion. I guess the problem you pointed out is like a paradox. People who gets the message will move on from your platform to some other.

Absolutely, true creativity comes with freedom and absence of fear. My point is, if the free market acts in a responsible manner, there would be no distinction to creating music for money and creating music because you want to. It'll be back to the renaissance days.

I totally agree.

At the moment, I feel like the only people on Steemit are content creators. Which is logical, they would be the ones that are first drawn to the monetary rewards for their work. But it seems we do lack the content consumers.

On reddit for example, I'm more a consumer than a creator. Still, my vote is worth as much everyone else. Here on Steemit, it's quite different.

I understand the fear for bots giving lots of upvotes to their makers. But I would like to see a consumers vote have some kind of influence. Maybe not monetary. Maybe it would just mean that the post would be more visible. But someone who just visits Steemit to consume content and nothing else, is a valuable person. Especially now, when the platform is crawling with creators who are fighting for money, instead of creating the content they already used to make without the monetary rewards.

That's true, though the statistics prove that engagement and views are rising quickly. So definitely there are more consumers incoming. The cool thing is consumers can be paid too with curation rewards.

This is still a nascent platform. I'm optimistic that the platform will mature over time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to be paid any significant amount for curation, you'd have to create content first or buy a ton of Steem.
I don't think a consumer wants to be paid. I think he just wants to reward the content that he likes, preferably in a significant way. And right now, it seems to me like a consumers vote is worth almost nothing.

That's correct, the amount of curation rewards depends on your Steem Power holding. But it also depends on your work ethic, skill and understanding of the rewards system. For example, I make more in curation rewards with 50,000 SP than most whales with 1 million SP. When I was a minnow, I still made pretty decent rewards. The key is to find undiscovered posts and try to get the word out about them. Voting on trending posts is a sure fire way to never succeed at curation rewards.

@liberosist, one of my favorite line is, Men come in a million shades of grey. No two person are same, no two perceptions are similar, of late perhaps since a month there has been tremendous influx of new steemians to the platform. I call them steemians as once they are in, they are steemians already. I am one of the newbie that arrived here and I am totally green behind my ears when it comes to blogging. I never ever blogged in my life. except for a few rants on a page that no body read anyway.
so my introduction was my first attempt into writing some meaningful content and I made a decent intro of myself there.
The word out there is that "STEEMIT PAYS TO WRITE" and everyone thinks 'Hey, that's cool. let me makes some money there'. After a couple of failed or botched up write ups, they become desperate, they fail to understand why no one is upvoting them or following them and they try to influence the curators or the heavy weights here with the standard beg, borrow or steal method.
I feel the newbies need a break, they need some traction in the beginning. once they find some foothold on the platform, they should be concentrating on providing good content. that's how I see it if Iam sympathetic to those who beg for votes.
On my side, my principle is never ask some one to follow me in any of my posts or comments, I never ask anyone to upvote me in any of my posts or comments, I don't comment if I don't have an opinion about the blog or a word of genuine appreciation, simply put, I don't make frivolous comments.
The mantra I am following is try to provide as good a content I can and rest everything will follow eventually. This is a long term game as you put it. so better start with the right step.

You are a very senior & experienced steemian here. Is there any milder way to handle this transgression? just asking.

People just need to be patient and persistent, engage with the community. You're doing it the right way!