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RE: Female Privilege and Sexism

in #sex8 years ago

Thanks for the response, @in-vestments! The first point I brought up in this article:

While it depends on how you define privilege, it is true that women have different privileges than men do.

So yes! It is correct that some of the bullet points you listed can be perceived as female privilege. However, your next point confuses me.

But most of all, females have MASSIVE privilege in terms of sex. This is where feminists want to have their cake, and eat it too. They want to vilify men and masculinity for certain things, without wanting to give up the power that is the root cause of those things. Not that they could give it up anyway, as this state of affairs is biologically hard-wired, and not merely a social construct.

I do not agree that in general females have privilege in terms of sex. While I do agree that sex is exploitive, and there are many (women) that have monetized off of it, that does not by default mean that this is an example of female privilege. Many men have benefited from this, as well, and is not exclusive to women by any means.

Furthermore, "privilege" is not always a bad thing. For example, some privilege stereotypes suggest some people are smarter than others, drive better, cook better, etc... when you start considering just who has more advantages and disadvantages than whom, it gets really complicated.

women are more valuable than men. They can give birth and create life. Men are disposable, and have always been treated as disposable throughout history. Men hold women up on a pedestal; part of the dynamic of men being the hunter and women being the hunted, is that in being the hunted they are also the prize. Women use and abuse this sexual leverage every day without even realising it. Yet, they can't really be blamed for it, because that's just the way that nature is. If you don't think that women have power over men, that just reflects the fact that you are blind to your own privilege. Even if society could drop these 'standards', which you say are so harmful, women wouldn't want to, because they benefit far too much from the fact that men essentially worship them.

Here is where you really lose me.

This statement is incredibly hetero normative. Yes, biologically, we are different-- but your argument doesn't account for anyone outside of those constraints. It doesn't include anyone that is non-binary or non-straight.

Personally, I don't believe that I am denouncing my privilege because I don't believe in "female privilege." The idea of female privilege suggests that women are atop the gender hierarchy. Privilege in general (as stated before) is a broad spectrum.

It is still in my opinion that social constructs surrounding gender and sex are harmful to both men and women.

Your article, and feminism in general, tries to deny reality by incorrectly claiming that gender is a social construct and has no inherent foundation to it. More than that, feminism is downright hostile to masculinity (and also femininity), to the point of wanting to erase them entirely, and wanting to live in an androgynous dystopia.

I (nor feminism) deny reality. Gender, in my opinion, is both biologically and socially constructed. If it were not socially constructed, stereotypes (in general) would cease to exist. These two subjects are not mutually exclusive.

I cannot argue with your personal experiences. If feminism has damaged your masculinity, that's not on me. However I don't define feminism as misandry, as I have stated in numerous articles, I do not downplay men's issues. I firmly believe that men and women should have equal social, economic, and political rights, and that is how I personally define feminism.

I would also challenge you to show me where exactly institutional male privilege exists, given that the wage gap myth has been debunked about a million times, and no serious economist accepts it.

Here is how I define male privilege and institutional power.

Okay, so we have established that there are many facets to privilege (i.e. social status, accommodations, power, class, etc). So what exactly are some examples of male privilege?

Here are some that resonated with me from Charles Clymer, a male feminist

Male privilege is asserting that sexism might exist for both sexes but maintaining that men’s problems are more pressing and immediate.

Male privilege is being able to walk in public without being sexually harassed on a regular basis.

Male privilege is the ability to occupy any space and not be inundated with attempted flirting.

Male privilege is turning on the television to watch programs that are nearly always male-produced.

Male privilege is looking at other men put women on a pedestal and getting angry … at the women.

Male privilege is believing you have a right to decide what a woman does with her body.

Thanks again for responding, I hope this clears a few things up.

Sort:  

"I firmly believe that men and women should have equal social, economic, and political rights"
Same! But I think you and I might have differing ideas about what constitutes 'equality'.

Regarding my opinion being heteronormative - you're right, I didn't address that aspect, because I didn't think it would add anything. While I am fine with homosexuality, let's not forget that 90%+ of interaction between people is heterosexual.

"Male privilege is asserting that sexism might exist for both sexes but maintaining that men’s problems are more pressing and immediate."

I think both have problems that are pressing. And there are VERY few people, besides MRAs, that say male issues are more pressing and immediate. On the other hand, it is now a common belief, not just in feminist circles but in wider society, that women's issues far outweigh men's issues.

"Male privilege is turning on the television to watch programs that are nearly always male-produced."

This is an artifact of history. Females have historically not been in as many leadership roles as men. This will correct itself over time - but I don't think gender quotas and affirmative action are the way to go. The pendulum has truly swung the other way here. If women don't want the stigma of being a diversity hire, they should support a meritocracy rather than gender quotas.

"Male privilege is believing you have a right to decide what a woman does with her body."
As a citizen, I can vote, which gives me a say in deciding what rights people have. Male legislators and politicians should not be banned from legislating on womens' issues. This would be an example of a lack of equal rights between the sexes.

"Male privilege is the ability to occupy any space and not be inundated with attempted flirting."
Attempted flirting is innocuous in the vast majority of cases, and is a direct byproduct of the fact that women have sexual privilege over men.

Don't waste your time with Vera
She literally believes sexism against men does not exist and racism agains whites does not exists.

And for her, proof is some quote from a famous feminist.

Don't waste your time arguing with donkey, it will only kick you

Why don't you make your own posts debunking my beliefs, then?

I'm sure there are a lot of people that agree with you. I'm just not one of them.

Just because it doesn't affect you, does not mean it does not exist. Your argument at this point is just "it is what it is," which doesn't hold up very well.

If men and women are equal, why does it matter to a viewer that a show be produced by someone of their own gender?

I'm confused about where I implied "it is what it is". Is it my opposition to gender quotas for women?

We live in a highly competitive, meritocratic society. Any firm that hired a less capable man over a woman, would die out because their competitors could hire superior talent. If women want more representation in the workplace, and in upper management, they should achieve it with talent and work, not pressure groups and legislation calling for gender quotas. Discrimination for women is discrimination against men.

If men and women are equal, why does it matter to a viewer that a show be produced by someone of their own gender?

It matters because of the desired gaze and audience. Many things portrayed in media are toxic in general.

Discrimination for women is discrimination against men.

This is what I've been saying the whole time!