My View On Softfork 222
I am nobody. Small fish, no importance. But I don't like this. I understand the witnesses/big money are afraid of losing their power, but changing the rules and locking a guy out seems to me to be wrong.
He bought his SP just like everyone else did, and now he is excluded because you're afraid of how he might vote it. Its bad karma.
"First they came for your neighbor, then they come for you".
If successful, don't be surprised if this totalitarian rule is used even more in the future. And maybe against YOU!
Like I said, I'm nothing. But frankly, I'm even more disgusted with Steemit by the way people are acting on this issue. I will never forget this lesson and I'm sure it will taint the chain forever (or as long as it lasts).
It makes me uneasy, that's for sure. Locking out an investor who has put his money where his mouth is. I'm hopeful that, as per @good-karma's response, it is a very temporary measure to bring Justin to the table to alleviate concerns.
I also hope, that once that is accomplished, the code would be rolled back....(but somehow I suspect that won't happen)
I'm with you @sparkesy43... especially the whole last sentence!
I don't think the rest of us have anything to worry about in regards to getting forked out but I certainly don't like what was done.
Justin Sun bought his stake fair and square. Forking out his power that came with that stake is a shitty thing to do.
Those saying but .. but its ninja mined stake. To that I say.... Yeah, so what. Others have ninja mined stake as well. Plus Justin Sun didn't mine it, it was mined long before he purchased it fairly. The time to fork out ninja mined stake was long ago and it wasn't done, don't do it once someone buys it honestly.
I think the blockchian is more at the mercy of Justin Sun now then its ever been due to the poor decision to lock out his stake. No big investor is going to dump money into this place with the thought in their mind that their stake can be just forked out. Justin Sun is likely our last big investor due to this hasty decision made by some.
You said it well @rentmoney. Its hard to believe that the witnesses can't see how bad this is. I'm hoping Sun give's them a way to save face next week and says he's going to keep Steem intact as a blockchain and they can undo this stupid maneuver!
I find it to be a sad day for Steem Block Chain. Who is going to want to invest in Steem after seeing this reaction from the witnesses? The only safe investor are those in the top 20 of the witnesses.
I know they will just keep pulling the Ninja-mined card out, so it does not matter what the user thinks of this action.
Yes they can justify it however they want, but the bottom line is the guy spent his money to buy SP. Who in their right mind would ever invest their money again after this kind of "heist".
I know I am glad i have not, nor likely ever will invest any money. I haven't learned how yet, and I am unlikely to ever even bother learning now, even after my 5 year target is met.
!ENGAGE 25
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He's already at #17 Let's get him to number 1!
I'll vote for him! And 19 of his friends! :)
What's ninjamined @davemccoy? I read it everywhere... but I don't know what's that😯 isn't it weird? They supposed to communicate clearly, the witnesses (big guys) and @jasonsunsteemit? I heard it will be on march 6th... why softfork then?
in the beginning, @ned got a lot of very cheap steem through tricking people by hiding the fact that he owned hidden accounts (ie ninja) and thus got lots of control of steem in ways that people didn't KNOW about. So they call that ninja mined because it was disguised and people weren't aware who owned those accounts.
Now they say that particular Steem is not valid, but they never blocked it before because they would've lost their witness votes. But since Jason Sun bought it and they are worried about him taking control and kicking them out, they decided to say NOW that the old steem that was ninja mined by Ned is not valid anymore. In other words, they don't like (ie fear) the new guy and so they are saying his Steem is no good and won't let him vote it.
My problem with it is that if they can do this to anyone, then they can do it to everyone. Frankly I'm very disappointed in many of my friends that are witnesses that support it. I'm sure they are just looking at it like they are "saving" the system (because they don't want the big bad Jason Sun to take over Steem), but in my opinion they are doing some serious damage to the value of the chain. If you can steal a guy's money so easily (Sun put in $10s of millions), then no serious investor will ever trust it won't happen to them.
Its not what he bought, its who he bought it from. That stake was ninja mined. Kind of stolen. It was never supposed to be used for voting and now that rule is also built in code.
Should we lockup all the ninja mined stakes then? None of the witness talk about locking up freedom(cause it voted most of the top 20 in) cherrytomatoes2 or ngcs ninja stakes ... I agree with a some of the soft-fork in that they should not let the account witness vote ... but freezing all his assests so he cant power down or transfer steem is not ok. I dont trust justin after his stunt with tron and their print rate... but freezing an entity's assests isn't cool and once the precedent has been set anyone could be next.
yes I agree @ityp. And if the ninja mined stakes are no good, why now are they being blocked and not before? And like you said, what about the other ninja mined stakes????
To steal something from someone who unknowingly bought something that was stolen is still theft.
All ninja mined should be blocked. If they let him transfer then he can just move stake to other acct and witness vote from thr
If that is the case, then they should've blocked it many moons ago. Blocking it now is "theft" from them on a guy that bought what he believed to be valid SP. If they are NOW saying its no good, then every ONE of the witnesses that were aware the stake was ninjamined before this transaction should resign. If it is invalid now that Jason Sun bought it, then it was invalid before when Ned owned it. Where were they before? And why didn't they block it then?
This is not going to be good for Steem and will lead to lawsuits. Which they will lose on. And worse it will ruin confidence for a long time. There is no putting this genie back in the bottle.
And finally, stealing something from someone that bought something that was stolen is still "theft". Even more so when you consider the lords of steem allowed that theft to stand for many years without doing a damn thing about it.
It is theft by Ned Scott- not the witnesses.
Please stop voting on the tron witnesses.
Where was this passion when the same top 20 witnesses supported the flagging and downvoting of bernie and others of all the newbies? I will reply to your other message, but you are barking up the wrong tree with me. I will tell you in that message what I want to get my votes, otherwise I fully support new management because the old management ran me and most of my friends away and didn't give 2 shits about it.
I think it was Justine of msp (where a few previous top 20 witnesses have radio shows) who managed to ask and convince Bernie to stop abusing new users, and he did. Many people in MSP waves didn't approve of what Bernie was doing to new people-but I can't remember specifically the position of each person-and much of what was said was said over internet radio. And I got tired of digging from oldest to early 2018. Although I been with steem since about june/July 2017, I didn't know the internal power struggles back then....and probably still don't know enough about it now.
Bernie is an example of another Ninja miner. I skimmed through the msp discord chat for early mentions of his names. At one time, if you wanted to be a witness you pretty much needed the support of the top 12 whales. Bernie reportedly was also powerful enough to influence the hardforks that threatened his power.
So pretty much, steemit, unless they themselves did a takeover with their ninja mined stake, was at the mercy of the whales. If steemit tried a takeover then-the whales could of course dump. The whales were at the mercy of the witnesses and the witnesses at the mercy of the whales. So bernie was pretty much in charge. he reportedly started out as a positive influence upvoting new steemit users and supporting projects. When many of the witnesses first started, it was Bernie who gave them their first large upvotes.
However over time he seems to have changed to being hostile to new users. He might still support steem in is own way. I belive he mocked the proof of brain concept by posting low quality post, and upvoting himself. But he started targeting a great many users with hit downvotes and bots. It was msp waves that created the freezepeach project to help negate downvotes. Witnesses would also find post that bernie downvoted and then upvote and recommend others to do the same. I think he also expressed concern about steemit's ninja mined stake, so perhaps him downvoting every new user was to either protect the new users, change the proof of brain system, or to force steem inc to dump their holdings. I'm not a psychologist but he is caring in his own ways that I don't think we'll understand. Don't get me wrong, he targeted a lot of people seemingly for no reason. But in the end everything that they wanted to say was preserved on the chain-even if it was hidden from the steemit app.
Down voting isn't necessarilly bad. It is a way to disincentive spam, copyrighted works, abuse and so on. What gets to decide these these definitions? The broken proof of brain.
The witnesses apparently don't have the power to prevent a downvote unless they take a persons stake (or at least was the case in 2017). Given that, do you think you could find 17 witnesses who could agree what to do with bernie. Bernie was destroying the steemit dapp and userbase, but harming bernie would destroy the steem market value (which arguably is the same) and confidence-and I doubt the other whales would allow it to happen again.
feel free to join the minnowsupport group on discord and listen and inquire sometime.
https://discord.gg/GUuCXgY
I appreciate you taking the time to address the issues in a very respectful and reasoned way. If you are a witness, I would vote for you. That is the kinda message that should be part of all witnesses platforms. Honest, direct, attentive to the issues.
Thank you for the engagement and I will definitely be paying attention for sure!
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Ordinarilly it would be wrong to hold the tokens. But there is a lot more history, a history of abuse at the beginning of the chain involving ninja mining of the coins-followed by concessions by Ned Scott. Those concessions effectively reduced the steemit ninja mined stake to a restricted status where they could not be sold or used for an upvote. What Justin sun bought from Steemit were not true steem coins, but restricted steem coins.
Given Eli Powell and Ned Scott conduct Lately, this was likely Ned Scott's exit scam from day 1. https://steemit.com/witness/@aggroed/teach-the-controversy-softfork-0-22-2-stop-and-correct-potential-futures He likely promised Justin Sun the steem block chain-which is ours not his. Four of the main steem inc people resigned yesterday; All that is left in steem inc are the marketing scammers [Ned and Eli] to my knowledge-and I don't think they will have a professional career after this-if they can avoid prison. Given Justin Sun's crazy talk about the situation and tweets by steem inc, Sun is potentially repeating what the now defunct steem inc is saying to them as they try to protect themselves both criminally and civilly. Justin Sun was scammed by Ned Scott, he was not harmed by the steem witnesses. The Steemit community witnesses have no obligation to Make Justin Sun whole; The community witness have a responsibility to protect the users and the chain.
The firth thing Justin Sun did when he purchased the steemit dapp was talk about a token swap and bringing the steem chain to a tron [BTSF]. That would imply the death of the chain, and the ninja tokens could take over the chain in a few seconds. The witnesses were told there would be a Q & A during the AMA-there was none. They reached out to Justin Sun for details-he provided none. This was an existential threat upon the block chain and it was the duty of the steem witnesses to restrict the ninja mined stake-and they codified it so the ninja mined coins had to comply to previous agreements. Justin Sun's tokens in code became what they were agreed to be the whole time-restricted. they did not steal nor destroy the ninja mined coins. They held on until he would tell them what the game plan was. Of could, Mr. "By my Shit Coins": had no game plan. All he offered was hype and nothing more. Even the Steem Marketing point was helping tron tokenize the web. Tokenizing the web is a model that has failed tens of thousands of times of multiple chains. On top of the inherent failure of tokenizing everything, using a centralized server to issue tokens is as suicidal as starting a block chain project on Tron Chain-Which Justin Sun will personally delete at his discretion.
Of course, by acting defensively it just ensure that the first moment justin Sun could he would use his ninja mined tokens to take over the chain. It was never safe to lower their guard. Justin Sun did something more sinister, he conducted the absolute largest fraudulent attacks in Crypto history upon a block chain, he/steemit bribed the exchanges ninja mined coins to give the chain to him. The exchanges now have their clients funds basically locked for 4 months; they embezzled their clients money who cannot get access to their money for four months, they are collecting interest off of the staked SP, they violated their fiduciary duty to their clients in violation of law. It is a wonder how any of them will be able to escape prison because of Justin Trons/Steemits actions.
There are also numerous abuses Sun did to his own centralized chain, which he fraudulently markets as decentralized. The attack likely came months of years before. When poloniex, which Justin sun is a major owner, had difficulty handling "steem" accounts, then in October they delisted steem, and it went into free fall. Then we hear Rumors Justin Sun is going to buy steem-then months later it happens.
There is nothing about Justin Sun that shows that he has a game plan, which is why instead of using speech and reason to present a viable plan he resorted to a hostile takeover. That was not the case of the steem witnesses who were begging for speech and reason when Sun presented to the community so much hostility. What he was after was power and control. He didn't even need us if he was interested in our technology. All he had to do was run a fork. As to our coins; he was just going to destroy them anyways to create a new steem tron token. That implied a new mintage. Mr centralization would ensure he would own a controlling stake, plenty for his allies, he would do an air drop for his tron users, and create a massive theft by dilution.
Justin Sun is hostile invader who bought in under the false promises of ned Scott. The witnesses codified steemits promise to us, which put Ned Scott in a tough position. Justin sun has refused to speak with us, he walled the community witnesses hackers for doing their job. he abused the exchanges to conduct a hostile takeover.
it is not the responsibility of the steem community to make Justin sun Whole. If Justin Sun wants to be made whole, he has plenty of remedies available in law. but Justin Sun and his allies have conducted so many felonies in the process, I think he'll have more to worry about from a federal prosecutor than getting his money back from Ned Scott.
Anyways, please remove your votes for the Tron witnesses. Stop being part of Justin Sun/Steemit's criminal conspiracy against the commmunity.
You are the second to get this message. If you guys persist on harrassing me further, I will start blogging about it and frankly you don't want that to happen. Right now I have sent my symbolic votes and the message behind them. Get the witnesses to condemn the scum among them and purge the assholes we all know exist, and I will consider it. Here is the message tailored to you:
I don't appreciate you following me around and telling me who I should vote for. I did vote for @yabapmatt, and a few other witnesses I respect. I think what the witnesses did to attempt to take the Steem from Justin Sun and render it worthless is theft. Why would I vote for people that in my eyes not only stood by and watched the Steemit community implode (because some of those same witnesses were their buddies), but then pulled off what to me is an illegal dirty crime? You have a lot of nerve to lecture me @firstamendment.
And for the record, my witnesses were chosen a few hours ago. If the other witnesses want my support they should a) apologize to the community for tainting the system with their softfork and b) apologize to community for not supporting the small guys and @fulltimegeek when the REAL BATTLE for the Steemit Community was being fought.
ps... to me this is a battle of 2 rich guys (Sun and the Masked Steem Man behind the witnesses), everyone else is getting played.
pps... feel free to message me when you get the apologies and the action needed to take care of those that burnt down the Steemit Community in the 1st place.
I am not responsible for the speech of others whether it be yours or the witnesses. If I could and were to represent you, the first thing I would do is file for a competency hearing as evidenced by your tron votes. If you feel you have a grievance against the witnesses, then please feel free to go to msp waves and plead your grievances to the witnesses.
If you make bad public decisions that affects the community as a whole, expect to be criticized for them. Speech on public matters is free speech at it's apex. Trying to hide behind criticism by crying harassment is a joke by social justice warriors who have no argument; harassment isn't categorically unprotected, and the internet is not a captive audience. If you don't like what we say, avert your eyes. Cough, it is called the @firstamendment . So go ahead, cry all you want to everyone in the world that someone says you have a bad idea on the internet. Still @firstamendment. I bet you like that feature on facebook, on twitter, on youtube, in the family courts, where the @firstamendment doesn't matter and we can see why you are so eager to suck Justin Sun's Cock.
The Steem witnesses didn't taint the chain with the soft fork, they codified the restricted steem coins to the restrictions that Ned Scott had agreed too. Because Ned Scott Scammed Justin Sun with restricted coins, you expect the community to sacrifice the entire chain for it ultimately because you hate bernie. Justin Sun needs to seek his legal remedy against Ned Scott, not screw us over. You are voting to screw us over. The witnesses don't need to apologize; Justin Tron just demonstrated how hostile he is towards the steem community committing multiple felonies in the process. 4 of the main people at steem Just resigned. If you are so eager for Justin Tron to take over, just tell him to go Fork himself and get the hell away. Congratulations, you might be the first real user of his out of his 15 million bot accounts.
Go ahead and complain, you would just prove our point. What's stopping you? Right now, the 99.999% of the steem community are the tron witnesses. Including the whales and the old witnesses. Whether it is Oliver Wendall Holmes, or Milo Yiannopolous, or many others saying or employing it, the best remedy for bad ideas is more speech. Go ahead, plead your cause to the world.
You make these empty threats because you are unable to defend your position. So, go on, seek as much public sympathy as you can. I won't stop you, I encourage you. Make your case, defend your cause. I suspect it is something like, "Steem should die because [davemccoy] hates bernie". You have issues.
Your hatred towards Bernie is comical at this point since he uses bots to destroy people on steem. Anyone can see the witness voting of the tron bots at steemd.com. Coders can curl this information from steemd or the api. I have no idea what the whale developers will ultimately do. It is their own decisions what they ultimately do. But you should be thanking those of us who tried to peacefully reach out to people like you. Remember, I could have (at) berniesanders this if my intent was malicious. I can only save those that want to be saved. So go ahead and bellyache.
omgosh. I didn't approach you, you approached me. So the person who is crying out is you not me.
And while I find much of what you write comical (and if I cared about what you think then I would try to argue with you), the fact of the matter is Steem was already DEAD. You don't see it because you don't want to see the many thousands of people that left. Yes you see what is in front of your eyes, but you can't see that the power structure is what killed this place.
And for the record, I don't hate Bernie. I hate what Bernie was allowed to do. And further for the record, it happened with the same power structure in charge that you are trying to protect.
So because I want Steem to live (vs. die) I will happily vote how I want and I want to support the tron guy because he gives the place a chance.
So please stay out of my house with your insults and koolaid drinking logic. I don't have time for it, and I have no need to listen to children preaching shit from their cult-like alter.
this isn't a house. This is data on a transaction on the database that it put together through an application at the presentation layer. It is your decision to view which requires many affirmative steps. Reno v ACLU, if you don't like it, avert your eyes. Cohen v California, among many others. The delusions of law that the feminist so argue, that you so share, deserves to be shattered.
BTW, the one with a cult like alter is you dedicated to Justin Sun.
You may want to check out some Bernie threads for the comments about what may happen. Just know some people had the insight to try be kind to others. Since Proxy token joined team Tron, I am kind of eager for Bernie to fire up his bots. Have fun.
ok I will let you keep your delusion that you are superior to me. I have no more use for you. Good bye!