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RE: Who likes hard forking?

in #steem6 years ago (edited)

You can not fork out something, only fork. The former is a misnomer that indicates either misunderstanding or a deliberate attempt to mislead.

When one creates a fork, it introduces two possible paths going forward for the blockchain. People can choose either, both, or neither of the paths to use going forward. If people take the path where certain premined stake is no longer recognized then that is their prerogative. If they choose not to, that their prerogative as well. Neither you nor I can dictate to others what to do.

You are looking at forks as being something like updating bank records in a database, where there is one single record and when an account is gone, it is really gone. That's not the case with blockchains. You can not make these kinds of destructive modifications without rewriting the past chain, which goes far beyond a mere fork (and even then, nothing prevents people who prefer it from continuing to use the original chain).

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You are hiding behind semantics. If a majority decides to fork leaving any legitimate minority excluded, then the minority is screwed. The old chain is lost to history (except in a couple of very famous, high profile cases where the minority has spent millions trying to keep their "forks" alive). You know this all too well, so I will not condescend by implying you might not understand. What I will say, however, is that my impression is that you are indeed trying to mislead with your hiding behind Orwellian doublespeak. What is being contemplated is out-and-out theft, and the end result for those who were to carry it out would be STEEM suicide. Nobody in their right mind would want to be on either chain!

Edit: (before writing this I must warn that you could accuse me of being ignorant on this subject of GitHub ownership, please correct me if I'm wrong) There is another angle not mentioned as of yet, and that is GitHub access. In light of Steemit Inc.'s public declarations, I think the world would view a request by a select group of top witnesses (as determined by highest ownership and long term participation ratios, for example) for STEEM GitHub access/ownership as being very reasonable. I think the long and short of Steemit Inc. and Ned's public announcements is that they are basically opting out, and if they do nothing to assist other stakeholders to take over, I think the world would see that as a problem. Remember, any action taken must be justifiable to the world at large if survival is to have any chance at all. With GitHub access/control, the community could move forward, without it there is a major problem. If Ned were to refuse to hand over GitHub access to the community, then there would be justification for forking and leaving him out. The case would have to be clearly made, defended and continually disseminated, but it could be seen as acceptable justification for an exceptional one-off that would never happen again and that wouldn't be viewed as theft, IMO anyway.

If a majority decides to fork leaving any legitimate minority excluded, then the minority is screwed

You have no say over this, as much as you might like to. If people want to move to a different chain (including a chain which forked from a previous chain), with some differences in state but some commonalities, they can absolutely do so. There's nothing really to discuss here, regardless of what you or think. No mechanism is possible that can prevent it. If you think it is a bad idea, your only real option is to not use it.

The old chain is lost to history (except in a couple of very famous, high profile cases where the minority has spent millions trying to keep their "forks" alive).

In the case of proof-of-work chains, yes it is true that mining costs money. Whether this is any sort of deliberate "spending" of millions for a political agenda or just the usual case of miners chasing rewards is somewhat a matter of opinion but the latter certainly does happen (as when relative profitability of the chains shift and miners follow it). But in any case this does not apply to PoS chains which do not have mining cost. It is arguably a version of the famous nothing-at-stake problem that infinitely many forks can coexist with no added cost. The only thing that really determines which ones do is whether people find them attractive to use.

Nobody in their right mind would want to be on either chain!

People have repeatedy made these sorts of claims about various hard forks and chain splits in cryptocurrency history and always been wrong. It turns out that it is almost impossible to come up with anything (even the most incredibly stupid ideas, in my opinion, or probably yours), which "nobody" would want. Perhaps this simply means there are a great many people not in their right minds, but again what you or I think does not matter.

If Ned were to refuse to hand over GitHub access to the community, then there would be justification for forking and leaving him out

This has been requested repeatedly by witnesses and has been both explicitly and implicitly (by failing to take actions toward it) rejected. Apart from actual handing over, there has been repeated resistance to even allowing: a) third parties to perform some of the development work, to help develop a less centralized process and competence; b) including non-Steemit developers in planning, design, and roadmap processes; c) accepting work from non-Steemit developers which disagrees with the Steemit-determined roadmap. This included threats of using the Steemit stake to vote out witnesses in favor of it. So there we are. Draw your own conclusions I guess.