Steem 0.17 Change Proposal Introduction

in #steem7 years ago

Today we would like to present our proposed upgrades to the blockchain protocol for the next hard fork release, 0.17.

KISS, short for Keep It Simple, Stupid, is the guiding principle behind most of the proposals. Simplicity is important for any system looking to gain widespread support and consensus via user adoption. By making the system simpler we minimize the potential for failure, maximize the potential for optimization, build a stronger case for fairness, and can more effectively communicate the system’s value to new participants. With that said, if the system can work without a feature then we propose to remove it.

Encapsulation / Isolation of Key Consensus Components

A second theme in the proposed changes is encapsulation / isolation of functionality by minimizing informational and/or ordering dependencies between different components of the system. In principle all posting and voting is fully independent of the currency with the single exception of the final payout. Also, voting on one post is almost fully independent of voting on every other post. By making some subtle changes to how transactions are processed we can enable major performance optimizations and massive parallel execution in the future. We will not be implementing the high performance / parallel version until necessary, but we want to ensure that the blockchain logic makes upgrading to higher performance code possible without another hardfork.

Separation of Blockchain Logic from Interface Requirements

A major source of complexity on the blockchain is the implementation of consensus features designed specifically for steemit.com. We feel the blockchain should be a neutral protocol that is as independent as possible from a web interface. This will ensure that the blockchain is a fair, equal opportunity platform that can support many different kinds of interfaces.

There are many examples of consensus logic being dictated by an interface concern. These include: comment depth, payout period, and edit limitations. Many of the things we will be rolling back were originally introduced in Hard Fork 0.12 and were never part of the original Steem design.

Simplifications

Removing Over Posting Reward Penalties

During the July rush we experienced a massive influx of people posting as much as they could to get as many rewards as they could. In an effort to curb this “abuse” we implemented a limit on the maximum reward a post could receive if the post made more than 4 posts in the same day. In hindsight this change was reactionary and ultimately unnecessary. It has the psychological impact of discouraging engagement and adds unnecessary complexity to a system. In the spirit of KISS we feel this should be removed.

Single Payout Period

Steem currently supports two payout periods: 24 hour and 30 day. The 24 hour payout period is weighted by the time votes were cast and could be up to 48 or more hours in some cases. The 30 day payout period was designed to catch votes/readers who were not around in the first 24 hours.

Based upon voting statistics, the vast majority of the 30 day payout comes from votes cast in the first week. We also know that there is little difference between weekly active users and monthly active users, especially among those with meaningful voting influence. It is our belief that authors (and curators) will earn more by a single 7 day (fixed) payout period than the combination of 24 (variable) and 30 day (fixed). A single vote on day 3 is worth much more to the author under this system than a dozen votes on day 3 under the old system due to the N^2 weighting algorithm.

The original 24 hour rule was an example of allowing the interface requirement for “fresh/trending” content dictate the blockchain logic. Interfaces, such as steemit.com or busy.org, can use any algorithm they want to select articles to display.

Some may ask why we don’t recommend making the voting period infinite and/or allow multiple payouts. The answer is two fold:

  1. Limited voter/community attention
  2. Scalability considerations

Users will be able to cast votes past 7 days, but those votes will not impact payouts. There are many other technical benefits from this change that enable parallel scalability, but that is a topic for github discussion.

One final benefit of a 7 day payout period is a reduction in variance. Under the current model, those who post the same day as an extremely popular post get much less. By spreading it out over 7 days, the extremely popular posts have less impact on other authors posting the same day.

Comment Payout independent of Discussion

At one point we had considered dividing the top post rewards among the comments. In a past hard fork we modified the payout algorithm to pay all comments at the same time as the parent post. This creates a tight coupling and minimizes the opportunity for a comment to get rewarded, especially if the comment was posted shortly before the post was paid.

Under the proposed changes, all comments and posts would be paid exactly 7 days after they were posted. This means comments have more time to gather votes and late commenters have a better chance. This change also facilitates massively parallel computation by eliminating sequential dependencies among posts and comments.

Removing the Comment Nesting Limit

Many people have requested the ability to reply with unlimited depth. The current comment depth limit was driven by the consensus calculations involving parent posts. With the proposed change to make all comment and post payouts fully independent of each other, we can remove the nesting limit. At the very least, it will be up to interface designers to determine the limit rather than the blockchain.

Allow Editing of any Past Post or Comment

We propose removing the restriction on editing of past posts. It is a user-interface responsibility to show revision history and enable restoration of unintentional changes made by compromised accounts.

Normalize Payout Rates

Under the existing rules, paying one post changes the potential payout of the next post. This introduces an undesirable sequential dependency among posts that prevents parallel execution of payouts. The proposed change would ensure that all posts paid out at the same time will receive the amount of STEEM per vote.

Removing Proof of Work

In our last update we attempted to move to Equihash as our proof of work algorithm, only to be bitten by a bug in the library we adopted. For most of the last month proof of work has not be a factor on the blockchain. Now that STEEM has been launched and distributed, there is no security benefit being provided by miners.

The proof of work difficulty has never been a factor in determining the best blockchain for consensus purposes and has solely been used as a means of distributing the currency in a manner that complies with U.S. regulations . Now that the currency is distributed there is no longer a need to perform this function.

Our long term roadmap includes multi-chain designs that will further render proof of work pointless and unnecessary baggage. Removing it will allow us to focus our development efforts on features that actually do matter.

Remove Bandwidth Rate limiting from Consensus

In an effort to simplify the core consensus algorithm, we will remove all code relating to bandwidth restrictions from the consensus code. Instead, the same algorithms will be implemented as a “soft” consensus by the witnesses. This means that any witness can include any transaction they like and it will no longer be considered invalid by the consensus rate limiting rules.

Witnesses can then adopt a more flexible policy toward rate limiting without requiring hard forks. In particular, we will utilize custom (non consensus) operations to inform witnesses of revocable bandwidth delegation. This will allow large account holders to sponsor smaller accounts without having to fund the smaller accounts with Steem Power.

Bandwidth rate limiting is a short-term consideration and ultimately irrelevant to the long term consensus. All that matters long-term is whether or not a transaction was included and that gets decided by the witnesses. Collectively the witnesses have the power to rate limit accounts to prevent abuse and they will apply the same algorithm they are applying with release 0.16.1.



After the above simplifications have been made, there are a few new features that we feel will help the ecosystem flourish.

Multiple Arbitrary Beneficiaries to Reward Payouts

For any given post there can be a half-dozen different people who have a financial interest in the reward. The include: voters, author, referrers, hosting providers, blogs that embedded blockchain comments, and tool developers. Whatever website or tool that is used to construct a post or comment will have the power to set how rewards from that comment are divided among various parties.

This means that if you post via Busy.org that your post will share some of its rewards with Busy. If you post through the various phone and/or desktop apps then the app developer will be able to claim some of the rewards.

Independent Comment Reward Pool

Comments have a very different level of visibility and therefore get considerably fewer votes. In the past month only 1% of rewards were paid to commenters. Due to the nature of the N^2 reward curve it means comments are not competing against other comments, but against the top bloggers.

We feel that engaging more people in discussion and encouraging higher quality comments will make the platform more desirable. While relatively few people want to blog, many more are interested in commenting.

If all comments only have to compete against other comments, then more users can participate and comments can collectively garner a larger percentage of the reward pool. We are proposing that comments be allocated 38% (golden ratio) of the current reward pool and that comments be rewarded on a N log (N) curve with some to-be-determined modifications. This should work to allocate more rewards to those who contribute to discussions and drive community engagement.

Separate Market and Rewards Balance from Checking and Savings

Currently rewards are paid as micro-payments into the "checking" balances. These micro-payments suffer from rounding errors and add tight dependency on the order of operations between rewards payment, market operations, and transfer operations. In order to support the goal of encapsulation we want to treat rewards and market operations as-if they were independent “side chains”. User rewards would accumulate in a fund which could periodically be claimed.

This change would have the impact of users seeing their rewards every time they choose to claim them while at the same time allowing exchanges to replay the blockchain without validating all of the voting operations. Advanced implementations could process the votes in parallel to transfers and/or market operations.

By separating market balances from checking balances we can accelerate the market evaluations and allow the market to be processed independently from transfers. Like voting, the idea is to view the SBD / STEEM market as a virtual “side-chain” that can be processed in parallel as the system scales.

Summary

We feel that these proposed changes will set the stage for a more flexible, modular, and simplified protocol upon which many different participants can build. Like always, the community will have the final say on what changes are adopted and which ones are rejected. Please provide your feedback below.

Note: this is not the 2017 Roadmap that we have been working on. That document is far broader and more comprehensive than this 0.17 “next step” plan. The full roadmap will include plans for steemit.com and other user-facing features.

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We propose removing the restriction on editing of past posts. It is a user-interface responsibility to show revision history and enable restoration of unintentional changes made by compromised accounts.

This comes with the risk of vandalizing an account's entire history if the low-security posting authority or key is compromised. A popular service with posting key access getting compromised could do a fair amount of damage. It's true that currently the risk exists, but it only goes back for 30 days. Thinking long term, it's entirely likely that a service compromise could end up with vandalizing the entire posting history of many accounts going back years.

For this reason, I'd like to suggest allowing edits going back to the beginning of an account's history BUT any edit made before 30 days would have to be made after an account "switch" is thrown with the active key. Such a switch could allow edits going back past 30 days (with posting auth), but could then be turned off at any time. Having an automatic expiration of say 24 hours on the switch may also be prudent, because many might leave it on.

Seems like a reasonable idea. Alternatively, a UI can allow a user to restore all of their old posts&comments.

I tend to disagree. Technically this will add much complexity and then likely harm system scalability. As mentioned in OP, make it as simple as possible. When active key is required for posting-related stuff, risk of being compromised will increase.

I think reverting recent edits can be done just as well with the posting key. The use case here is a compromised account that is then recovered by the owner (or possibly other use cases such as an author who just messed up editing the post and wants to "Undo"). After recovering the hacked account the posting key would have been changed, and then the reverts can be done using the new posting key.

The active key would be for a switch only. Not for making the edits themselves. On the web, the switch can be on a more secure page where there isn't any user-modifiable content.

It would probably be simpler to just be required to use your active key to edit posts that have passed their payout.

It would be simpler but the idea of a switch comes from the idea of segregating the active key from any place where user-editable content is located.

I'd like to echo and second this request, if I understand it rightly...

One of the highest perceived values to me personally of posting on Steemit is the promise / hope of blockchain immutability. I view the value of at least some of what I write to be durable and long-term, and I would like to think of Steemit as a place where I will be able to maintain a "legacy of thought" for anyone interested to continue to come and read into the future.

As I was reading this 0.17 change proposal, I had thought to suggest a "lockdown" switch allowing any author to permanently lock any particular post. Reading @pfunk's proposal here, I like it much better - assuming the security of my keys - because it behaves a lot like the current system (i.e. "automatic lock-down" after 30) while still allowing for intentional, key-access editing of earlier posts.

One of my uses for this "long-term" editability of a post is maintaining (on my own, using the current UI) of a Table of Contents that resides on the blockchain itself. My current workaround/hack has been to simply re-issue the TOC at 30 day intervals; with editability, I will be able to simply update the existing TOC.

To be clear the blockchain immutability is still there regardless of edits. When posts are edited, each old version remains on the blockchain. It is up to the UI to decide what if anything to show about that history, for example an option to revert recent edits.

Thank you, @smooth, for clarifying that for me. I suspected as much.
So, checking my understanding:

  • Everything ever "Posted" goes on the blockchain.
  • Every subsequent edit goes on the blockchain.
  • The entire history of a post is accessible to an appropriately crafted UI.
  • The "final presented state" of a post depends on the UI interpreting the blockchain history.

Does that sound about right? Thanks for helping me understand. ;)

See!? I told you it was just a matter of time. :)

The one change that stands out to me as a potentially bad idea is removing the four post limit/penalty. With auto-voting what it is today - and many of those auto-votes coming from large stakeholders - I think this would be a terrible incentive for anyone receiving auto-votes to post as much as they possibly can. This may sound like a good idea ("Alright! More content!"), but more isn't always better.

It could also reinvigorate the role of sock-puppets on the platform. This is something that hasn't been much of a problem lately, but could quickly and easily be renewed.

Just something to consider.

The market can adjust though. IMO, the limit is too arbitrary. And some folks are capable of putting out more excellent content.

When the authors that got votes from bots started abusing the power, the rest of community will likely stand out and start flagging, and it will ruin the author's rep. Given that we'll have 7 days to review, it's easier for the "good people" to react. I don't think a wise author will do so, unless she/he need quick money, or the account is compromised.

By the way, it's up to the bots to implement better voting algorithms. Most bots are voting for money, they have incentives to not vote for contents that will be mass-flagged.

With the cultural stigma of the downvote this kind of abuse hasn't been discouraged even with efforts from a minority. Your votes and Dans were the only ones that mattered and they were countered by other whales to keep the rewards high despite the abuse. I'm not sure those same whales will turn a new leaf if somebody like @ozchartart went from posting 4 times daily to 10+ times daily.

That you and others disagree and your point of view doesn't happen to prevail in one instance doesn't mean the system doesn't work. It works when stakeholders actually agree on what constitutes abuse. There is no objective definition.

That said, it also works to an extent even when there is disagreement, in the sense that incentives favor choosing content to upvote that won't be downvoted at all, whether or not the downvoters succeed in driving the post value all the way down to zero.

Most bots are voting for money, they have incentives to not vote for contents that will be mass-flagged.

I will agree with you there. The risk of wasting voting power wouldn't be worth it when seeking ROI, particularly from curation, which is already not that high for most users.

...it's easier for the "good people" to react.

The question is - what can be done when the abusers are actually the larger stakeholders, as was the case a few months back? The other large stakeholders mostly took no action. So, if there is no reaction and other stakeholders don't have enough power to make a difference, the abuse goes on unabated. I don't know what the solution would be, but having the post reward limits/penalties would at least be able to curb that.

What other back-end options do you think there could be that could address abuse vs. unwillingness/ineffectiveness to mitigate it on the front-end?

I would say the same stake-holders are still "pod voting" The accounts change, but the behavior doesn't. No changes to the system will stop a few accounts that vote for a handful of accounts each day.

Maybe the builders of the bots can build a feature where they can vote on some of their fav. accounts on odd days, and different accounts on even days.

The question is - what can be done when the abusers are actually the larger stakeholders

Downvote, and it is still effective in shifting the incentives even if you aren't a larger stakeholder.

Consider a whale who has a choice of where to deploy one of his or her valuable and scarce 40 (full) votes per day. Choice A will get downvoted and Choice B will not. The incentives then favor B.

Unfortunately this isn't an instant gratification solution, but because it takes time for incentives like this to work, but they do work.

Is that whining I hear? Jk ;)

I have the same concern. We may need to allow more active downvotes on these types of contents.

Or, we could just avoid the problem as much as possible by not willingly opening things up for abuse. If users want to post more than four times, they can do that. They just won't earn as much. And chances are, if they're posting more than four times per day, the quality of their posts probably won't be that great anyway and probably won't be deserving of large payouts.

The four post limit/penalty doesn't seem to be a big deal in need of a "fix."

It has the psychological impact of discouraging engagement and adds unnecessary complexity to a system.

I don't think it discourages engagement. It discourages abuse - in the form of sock puppets and spamming. This is anecdotal, but I haven't seen many complaints from users who think that this needs to be removed. The limit doesn't mean that a user cannot earn - it only limits how much can be earned after a certain number of posts. With a stake-weighted system that can be and has been abused, I don't believe the limit is an actual problem.

if they spam post the bots will run out of steempower eventually or garner flags from pitchfork wielders

You're right. We may ask this first; how many articles/posts does a professional writers create per day?

Not all posts are going to be (nor should be) professional writers. Approaching it from that angle impairs the growth potential of the system to reach a much larger audience from the start. There are many different use cases for this blockchain, professional writers being only one of them.

Multiple Arbitrary Beneficiaries to Reward Payouts

Am I the only one that almost peed when reading this?

I think the overall strategy of keeping it as simple as possible is ideal.
I would change the 38% down to something like 5% for comments.
Congrats on the decision to finally remove the 6 nest limit. :)
Here's my two cents about past posts: please allow people to comment on any past posts. For users who find a blogger they really like, then find out that they cannot add their comments to an older post, well, it's really weird and user-unfriendly. All blogging platforms allow this, so it's almost inconceivable that this feature is absent.

Generally the ratio of posting to commenting to reading on a site is sort of like an iceberg.

I am of the opinion that 50% would be even more appropriate.

Well, actually, the reality is that Medium has more readers than commenters.
So, far on this platform, reading is still the thing people do the least, despite the fact that this is a blogging site.....
With that, I'm up for any changes that will shake up the user retention issue.

Yes, that is precisely what I mean. If visitors/readers are 100%, commenters are 10%, and posters are 1%. That's true for all of these types of sites: Medium, Reddit, Disqus, et c.

Regardless of the rewards, we are always going to have vastly more commenters than posters. It's a lot easier to reply to someone else (even with a "hey, you're WRONG!") than it is to type something new and interesting into an empty editor box.

PS: Who told you this is a blogging site? :)

something new and interesting into an empty editor box.

gulaabee havaee jahaaj
गुलाबी हवाई जहाज

PS: Who told you this is a blogging site? :)

I now understand why your username is sneak.

This is why ACTUALLY reading the content and commenting is just as valuable as creating posts if not more valuable.

I am a little weary on the removal of the 4 post limit. I think that will open the door for people to start playing the numbers game and put out as much posts as they can and see how many "hits" they get. I don't see this adding value to Steemit but decreasing it.

Agree with where you are going with that (though I'd prefer if none of these splits were actually predetermined). Likewise curation rewards. Think: posters, commenters, voters, readers.

All in all, thank you for your hard work and most of all, thank you for being transparent and bringing this out to the community as a proposal and open discussion.

I am personally good with most of them and a bit so an so (might need more time to think on) about:
Switch to 7 day payout instead of 24h
The simplest and most logical way to reward everyone imho would be indefinite, with a 24h payout cycle.

Removing the 4 posts limit, comment nesting limits and separation of posts and comments rewards plus multiple beneficiaries etc.
I think this adds a lot of complexity to the operations and might turn out to be very heavy computationally wise especially as we scale. Also opens the door to spamming by overflowing the blockchain with data.

What I didn't see mentioned in the proposal. maybe it will be in the roadmap

  • the faith of SBD (will it stay, will it be removed as it's outdated etc.)
  • more blockchain based operations/more development on blockchain based operations (like surveys.polls for ex.)

Reading through all the items mentioned, i think that a more streamlined (TL'DR-ish), layman description of the suggestions would be welcomed by the less tech savvy.

Ideally, I would love indefinite payout potential.
Perhaps 7 day initially, then 30 days periods indefinitely ..

I think it would incentivize content creators more to have the possibility for recurring income for those rare gem's of articles years into the future - especially considering future steemians signing up and finding classic posts from long before they joined..

Hey, @ausbitbank, I have had very similar thoughts, but my thinking has progressed a little...

If the reality of blockchain durability matches the promise, then the mere long-term availability of a creator's content is a strong incentive to blog on Steemit. As good or better than ongoing payouts for old articles would be easier access to those articles by new readers. I think that's more of a UI issue.

In other words, the lasting value of my "old gems" would be to attract new readers to want to keep coming back.

I want readers, not bots. ;) People that actually read and benefit from my content, and I think that a loyal and appreciative following will benefit me as an author even more than residual/royalty income from older articles.

It is important to not attempt to be all things. Multiple payout periods force all content to be kept "active" in consensus nodes which impacts technical scalability. It also requires all content to be kept active for review purposes.

Each day you are paid in STEEM, your long-term income comes from appreciation of STEEM. Employees don't go back to their employer asking to receive income from the work they did last year, last month, or even last week. Each day you are paid for that days contribution.

When the platform grows then you receive the compounding return on investment that will far outpace any residual revenue you would get from a post.

Don't all comment_objects need to exist in memory (at least with minimal data of author and permlink) anyway? The blockchain needs to check whether a post operation has a unique author/permlink so that it knows whether it is creating a new post/comment with a payout period, or just doing an edit.

So, we are talking about keeping maybe a couple more fields in comment_objects for validating nodes. And if you compare that to the amount of memory full nodes need to keep (whether the post is archived or not), that additional memory overhead is very small.

Memory access patterns for validating nodes are more of a concern, but I doubt most old posts will continue to remain active. And isn't this one of the advantages the ChainBase upgrade provided? That the database can support a much larger amount of infrequently accessed memory (since they remain on disk rather than in R AM)?

Also, I supposed it doesn't have to be indefinite. But archiving a post/comment after just 1 week is really short. (By the way, does archiving a post/comment mean that no new child comments are allowed? Because otherwise you still have the limited attention problem since new comments with active payouts can exist nested in the discussion thread of a months old post.) So what about up to 52 1-week long payout periods (which are only activated after the first payout if there is a new vote), and then a year after the post/comment was created, no new payout periods can be started?

You can compress comment objects down to HASH( author + permlink ) and check for existence, potentially using a bloom filter to detect non-existence. Memory access patterns can also be optimized.

The reality is that a single vote normally results in 0 payout and incurs a cost both at the time it is voted and later when it is rejected for insufficient payout.

We know that 99.85% of all votes (by rshares) are cost within 7 days. We also know that 99.5% of all votes (counted equally) are cast within 7 days. Actual usage shows that old posts don't get votes. In fact, we could get 99% of all votes within 3 days based upon actual data since HF 16.

We know that 99.85% of all votes (by rshares) are cost within 7 days. We also know that 99.5% of all votes (counted equally) are cast within 7 days.

This is a circular argument based on the current rule set (and UI). It can't be used to evaluate a different proposed rule set.

A similar (bogus) argument would be that comments only get 1% of rewards therefore rewarding comments isn't needed.

If it would be easier to find/filter "old" contend, then they would get MUCH more votes... The same would be true if the system would give more rewards to curators of posts older than 24 hours... So many gems not "mined" yet! Why throwing cement above our rich property ?

Old posts don't get votes because they don't feature. They are hard to find.

UI needs an advanced search page, by the way :)

Of course 99% occur in that time window.... who wants to waste today's voting power on something that will get paid out in 27 days at probably .001 SP?

if the technical stability is greatly affected then balancing the two (stability and a more streamlined reward approach) , 7 days would make more sense then 24h.
Still, some categories of users fall out of the employee range and fit into a more continual reward expectation: writers, musicians etc. and we might need to respond to their needs too.

On the downside, Trending posts algorithms need to be well thought and will bring their own downsides and benefits.

Edited to remove the 30 days reference which is proposed to be removed.

how will the 7 day payout scheme affect the daily trending page?

Not sure but I think the 2 would be independent.

ok thanks, that's what I think Ned said...
btw, get well soon!

Thank you! I already feel way better now that I slept all day.

KISS it, straight with indefinite and 24h cycle :):) That way it's simple for everyone and since 24h might be considered universally acceptable nobody considers it a downside as with the other timeframes.

It's true that I sometimes run into articles that are very valuable and were written a few months ago. We have writers around posting their stories. They can't be denied an effort reward after 30 days I think.

Long term rewards can be done via tips. Any individual vote has almost no ability to pay someone unless it works with many other users. This means that with the exception of a few whales, the long-term payouts would only apply to content that goes viral on steemit after more than a week delay. Possible, but unlikely.

Long term rewards can be done via tips

We need tipping on steemit!

https://steemit.com/steem/@snowflake/let-s-get-tipping-going-on-steemit

This is a good approach. I think the calls for long term payouts would greatly subside with an effective tipping system.

A blockchain feature that makes sense for tipping is a change purse (with a user-defined max balance) that can be used to receive and send tips with only the posting key. Or alternately some sort of rate-limited tipping ability from the regular balance with posting key.

Perhaps with an automated aspect: if the payout is already made, you can assign a certain amount to be tipped by your simple upvote.

Then after the one week payment, let unlimited 30days payout cycles active...After mass adoption it would be very likely some gem-posts to attract several votes in couple of 30 days periods... Even not many votes would add up the rewards after months, years of the post existent.... After all the posts will be on the blockchain for eternity...

PS I guess it is vulnerable to abuse the reward pool, right?

Advertising could be a better source of long term revenue. Something for the future though, I don't think we're ready for it yet.

i think that a more streamlined (TL'DR-ish), layman description of the suggestions would be welcomed by the less tech savvy.

agreed.

Also opens the door to spamming by overflowing the blockchain with data.

This is a common misconception. The 4 post limit is per account. However, nothing prevents people from creating an arbitrary number of additional accounts (potentially thousands, and there are already people with thousands of accounts) to spam. Spam control is already handled by other mechanisms which are more effective than this one.

Also, even the 4 post limit doesn't prevent spamming with a single account, it just reduces rewards. Someone who wants to be malicious or annoying can still spam.

Also, even the 4 post limit doesn't prevent spamming with a single account, it just reduces rewards. Someone who wants to be malicious or annoying can still spam.

true

This post was about blockchain features, not website features.

true and thank you for pointing it out. I removed the Adds part which was exclusively website related. Other than that I consider all other items blockchain related.

  • Escrow is fully functional at a blockchain level.
  • SBD can also be heavily managed at the website level by controlling which payout options we expose.

duly noted.

I like it how you are making a distinct and clean space between blockchain (database / protocol) possibilities and presentation / UI features. This way you are making it possible for multiple interfaces to coexist over the same blockchain. Or even over the separate / side blockchains....

It shows vision :)

I'm excited about the independent comment reward pool. It will increase engagement tremendously and I believe it will do a lot to help grow the platform.

At the same time, however, we should expect to see many more low-quality and bot comments. The community will need to find a way to combat these spammy replies.

Downvotes. Downvotes for everyone!

Yes! I want to downvote those crappy comments. :-)

Excellent update, thank you. There's a lot here and clearly the team has been working hard. We all really appreciate the updates and the discussion. I like that we're trying things out, testing what works and what doesn't, and we're willing to remove something we previously tried if it doesn't work out as expected or doesn't benefit us all as imagined. Being willing to be "wrong" is such an important aspect of gaining new knowledge on what ends up being "right."

Curious: any talk of changing the voting power? Initially Dan proposed a pretty serious change there and it was ultimately rejected by the community. Is that topic still active or is the future approach going to be voting guilds where many things get voted up automatically not by individuals but more so by bots?

I also would love to see changing the voting power revisited at some point.

I'm not sure this will please the main stake holders. It would be like taking their power away which was not in plan when they put their stake in.

What they are referring to isn't to take power away from large stake holders , but rather bots. Bots can vote all day every day and with a 40 vote soft limit it is impossible for any human with a job and/or life to compete with that. If we were to lower that limit then every human could use their full voting power and have a better chance at reaches the same amount of votes as the bots. I hope Dan and Ned will consider revisiting this idea as nobody is exchanging curation rewards for their authentic attention with the current system and that is a real fail for the attention economy. Those who pay more attention should be making better curation rewards than those (with the same amount of SP) who are offline.

Don't personify the bots - those are indeed humans with jobs and/or lives who are competing—by operating those bots.

Paying attention isn't what's being rewarded—it's surfacing good content. It doesn't matter if you washed your clothes by hand or used a machine.

Why should those with lives and families and a bot curator be paid more for surfacing content than people who actually read the content and also have lives and families but choose to be more attentive to the job? There's a reason people pay a dry cleaners instead of using the washing machine. But if we only care about cheap clothes (content) and would rather be lazy about the quality then use the machine.

Isn't the change @lukestokes is talking about the one where you could if you wanted to, vote 8x more with 1 vote and it would drain your voting power by 8x?

there was a confusion about that as it doesn't allow you to actually vote 8x stronger. There was a post about it specifically but i can't remember which one.

Ah, right.

Did andu sell his account btw? :P

replying here due to comments nesting limit
yup, andu sold me the account. My previous one is @anduweb. Some KISS-ing right here, cutting off a couple letters.

:D alright thanks for the info! I knew andu from some time ago, was wondering where he went haha.

replying here due to comments nesting limit

what a relevant issue ;D

Why not to make some steem weighted poll about each proposed changes with 3 options to answer: 1) agree, 2) disagree, 3) don't know?

Thanks to @xtar in Golos we have special poll site for that.

Even though I don't understand a word on that website, I would fully support a blockchain based poll feature.

Words don't matter). Number before brakets means number of voters, and number inside brakets is a summ of their Golos Power.

This would be a great thing to implement on Steem using Steemconnect.

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