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RE: Proposal to make spam less profitable
What about a small 0.005 (arbitrary number) cost to comment an post? Perhaps it could be wiped out if the comment gets rewarded more than that. If there is a cost to comment, wouldn't that make people think a little more and also target their comments to where they may actually earn something rather than spamming indiscriminately?
The problem with many things here is that there is no direct cost to engaging in any particular bad behaviour until caught meaning someone in the community has to not only see it but take the initiative to shine a light on it. Up until the point that @steemcleaners or @cheetah flag automatically, all gains are profit.
This is the same for plagiarism and ordering bidbot votes on nonsense.
I have a proposal for you guys with 70+ rep and 10k+ SP: make an account not traceable back to you, and start posting and engaging with people here. You'll stop with this silly proposals.
Sorry if I sound too harsh, but the reality of your experience here on steemit doesn't match that of an average steemian. You are followed around by an army of ass kissers and even your farts are upvoted to hell. An average small fish is putting his/her heart and soul into creating something here only to see it go unnoticed. For the most part, we are shouting in the dark.
The engagement rates on steemit are abysmal and you propose to tax it (thus lowering it still). Please, create an anon account and start posting. Do it as an experiment in order to see what the most of us experience on a daily basis.
I've won a contest last month and got 75 SP delegated for a month. I've been doing my best to spread that $0.01 vote of mine around the sports betting community in order to encourage folks to not give up. I've been posting comments cheering them up, providing feedback,... Your proposal is pissing on people like me. Sorry for the anger in my response, but think twice before proposing that stuff. You're big enough for the devs to listen to you. For the opinion of people like me, nobody cares.
Don't, by having a good intention, drive the nail into the steemit's coffin. Cheers
Exactly, and all those 0.01 comments were not paid to any of them. In fact, it cost you voting power to basically lead them on. You spent part of that delegated time frame putting miles on your mouse.
And there I thought I'm rewarding the efforts of the newcomers... what a downer.
Nevertheless, knowing what I know now, I'd do it again. My efforts didn't go completely unnoticed and my participation in this discussion had some people take a closer look at what I'm doing. The end result of me making noise and putting miles on my mouse is that I've got 550 SP delegated to continue doing what I did so far.
The only thing I regret is destroying my voting power. It will take me at least a week to regenerate it :-)
Have you had a close look at my blog? Have you gone back to the start? Do you see the rewards that go to the hundreds of minnow who do engage well on my account? None of them would be affected by this proposal because they engage well and don't spam. I can only speak for myself but, if people actually put the effort I do into this place into their work, they would likely do very well in time. It is an investment isn't it? Investments have a cost and their is no guarantee of return.
Again, drop by my blog. Engagement rates are abysmal for many reasons, one of them is because of Spam posts, spam comments, spam bots that add no value to the system but do extract some.
I have a few dozen people I have brought onto the platform and helped, some do quite well now. This is a social media isn't it? It is about being social and engaging with the community. None of them spammed to get their start. If people come in and expect to spam for reward without engaging in the community, should they earn?
It takes work to earn here and that work is going to increase as more and more come onto the platform. If one wants to treat it like facebook, do not expect earnings.
Because their is only upside to acting like an ass here, there are a lot of people acting like asses. What you call a silly proposal is work towards real solutions and trials in the early stages of a startup.
So now, What is your suggestion to stop spam posts and comments?
I appreciate your reply. Thanks for not ignoring me.
I see where you're coming from. You see the small fish on your account engaging meaningfully and getting properly rewarded for it. Props to you for taking care of your community, but most of us are not on your blog engaging with you. Our interests lie elsewhere and I don't appreciate the proposals that will damage my community.
Try to see a perspective of somebody who's not following the big accounts here, somebody who's interested in a niche topic that sports betting is. There are no big accounts there, and the most members have less than 0.01 vote. What's worse, the nature of the beast is such that great essays, photo travel logs, recipes and such are not to be found (no chance to get @curie reward or to be featured by @ocd).
The most valuable content a member of our community can produce is the tip. Which outcome to bet on. We don't care for 2000+ words essays, we care about the profitability of your tips. Now, you may call the content we produce to be not worthy of the reward, but I can say the same thing for the umpteenth artsy fartsy post by someone well versed in the gentle art of kissing up to the whales.
Should we all drop what we are doing and line up for the crumbs the big accounts are bestowing upon us? Screw that!
Every proposal that discourages the engagement is beyond silly - it is suicidal. With the eos around the corner and the panic that will ensue here, the last thing needed is to piss on the small guys just because the big ones are tired of seeing spam.
Whack-a-Mole. Do as I and report the spam to the steemcleaners when you encounter it. It takes time to get an account here, and mere seconds to get it flagged to death by them. The solution we have works well enough.
Don't fight a relatively minor problem this platform has by solutions that would kill it completely. If the solutions the two of you proposed are to be implemented the steemit is done for.
See the numbers in the reports that @paulag is making. Spam is not this platform's problem. Dead accounts and meager engagement are.
EXACTLY!
New users NEED to be helped, otherwise they are totally LOST among the vote-buying bots and other gimmicks. I'm finally out of the dust stage and made it into the minnow category, yet even after a year of working hard and honorable, I don't have 1,000 SP despite putting everything I earn into SP. The way the system works, the more users that come on-board, the harder it is for the new users to earn anything at all. Putting greater barriers on the new users is not the way to grow the platform. Without those helpful votes from dolphins and whales, it is pretty much hopeless to start from nothing at this point in time. I've had a few random big votes or curation trails land on my posts and let me tell you; it's like winning a lottery!
Please don't stop at helping only your friends, but spread some love around, because the platform desperately needs that now. There is no reason why Steem couldn't be a real currency already in use, except for the mindset of those in control.
Another point, most new users won't have built in mentorship. To have empathy, you must experience it for yourself to the point of feeling it first hand.
My point exactly.
So our voiçe is only valuable once blessed by a golden boy?
Bring back the n(something) and a 100mv vote cap until we get enough users to slowly raise the cap.
And what do you propose for all the new users that downloaded the Steepshot App from the appstore?
Your account is more then a year old. Times where different then. Times where different six month ago. Voting power for plankton is on a decrease.
And what about the plankton?
that in time is getting longer and probably exponentially. I don't think you can reach dolphin in one year any more. Heck you are now hard pressed to become minnow in a year.
I am a SteemSTEM honor member, mentor and engagement officer and i make a lot of comments (some are very long) and very few of them get any votes. We are trying to make others engage, comment and socialize, we are educating them to prevent plagiarism and spam. And it's working, and like me are tens more. Adding a cost to socialize and make friends is prohibitive. I consider myself one of the good guys, I don't self upvote or use bots.
This will ban the people we are educating to build upon the community.
It sounds like you work for the government ;)
In another comment I added in this chain somewhere I also suggested *payment withheld' on new members joining the system until after some trial period . This would likely help you a great deal in your public servant position working for community development as it will lesson the people wasting your time.
Part of my goal here is to take people which show promise, educate them, help them write better articles and make them socialize and get noticed. The rate of success is small, adding another hurdle will reduce the comments they will make and thus their exposure and their involvement.
Do you think that people will post quality things while in the trial period? They will post "nice article" until the trial period is done. Then they will post "nice article". Because what is changing in their mentality? Psychologically speaking? Why would he not?
Because, they will be flagged, much like they are now and lose their earning potentials. Anything earn up until that point will be burned. It might not be a time thing at all, it could be 1000 comments.
The education of these people is absolutely atrocious and that seems to be before they even get to Steemit. The onboarding here is non-existent and none of the suggestions to UI tweaks that have been offered up to improve behaviour from day one have been implemented. Still, something has to be done.
This is a 'get paid for content' site, there should be a few hurdles. work needs to be done before the pay.
I have observed that the lack of education about such comments is to blame.
Which means that they will spam and lose until they will get educated, case in which initial spam won't be reduced by much, and I rarely see accounts over 40 spamming.
I have nothing wrong with reducing spam, it's just that I don't want it to be the equivelent of chemo: poison everything and we hope that the bad ones die before the good ones.
Yes, it should be better outlined at onboarding but, thinking that the introduceyourself tag is filled with bidbots, they come in knowing something.
As said, the education seems bad before they come onto the platform considering what people seem to think being social is.
I see quite a few.
I will always fight to educate people here. I am also doubling my rewards with my own bought Steem from Bittrex.
From my experience, as soon as we educate them, 99% give up their behavior. They do it because they see others doing it, they think they are tricking the system & it has something to do with how they rank themselves as more intelligent than others, hence the sense of righteousness of their actions.
I have managed to get 30+ people to give up their vote selling by talking in detail to them (Discord and comments).
I think that this is one of the problems of the world we are living in, putting ourselves (let's say the more educated) vs the less educated. Any of our rules will be seen as an attempt to maintain our wealth and status. It's how psych works when you are poor and uneducated.
Also for @timcliff:
I would love to talk more about this, I am not here primarily to make money, so we will talk again. I will get more involved in creating this better world. I might also be wrong, but a healthy discussion is what we need.
My problem with that idea is that when you're commenting and encouraging small members you often don't get any upvotes because they have to vote at 100%, so they limit their votes. It could become costly to then communicate with them and they would lose even more encouragement. When I started a little community of homesteaders were encouraging and looking out for each other. Our votes were near worthless, but the communication was priceless because it kept us going. A fee would have stopped that dead. We could have moved communication to discord maybe, but it takes away from a discussion focused on a post that could add value.