Meet Steem's #1 Author!

in #steemit9 years ago (edited)

How does the top author on Steem earn more than twice as much as I do? I was curious to find out after looking at https://steemwhales.com/trending/?d=30 and seeing the @mindhunter is receiving 2.23 times more rewards than I am. I opened Evernote and started taking notes.

Here is what I learned in two sentences: the top author is currently earning $10,000 to $20,000 a month from discrete upvotes directly on comments that are then upvoted at the very last minute! To be more specific, @mindhunter earns about $20,000 a month mostly with comments such as "Me too" which get upvoted for $60 several times every day! See the picture below!

How The #1 Steem Author Earns $10,000+ A Month!


After looking at steemwhales.com we may notice that @jerrybanfield is currently in the top 5 somewhere. I am very grateful to be one of the top authors on Steemit and I am always seeking ways to improve because I already know what I am doing. I have millions of followers that consistently see the posts and videos I make about Steem. 2 or 3 times a day I make a new post with nearly all of my creative energy funneled into Steem. In other words, being a witness and author on Steem is what I do full time.

Now, I looked on the Steem Whales trending over here, 30 days authors, which anyone can go find here: https://steemwhales.com/trending/?d=30

I looked to see where I am at in the top author rankings today.

I'm very grateful that I'm at number four right now.

I was amazed to see that the person earning number one is making about two and a half times what I'm making. Therefore the top author may even be making as much as $20,000+ a month doing this. I went with $10,000+ to be conservative.

Now, I went to look at @mindhunter's profile to discover what exactly does he do? What can I learn from them?

#1 author on Steemit


Here is the current number one author on Steem: @mindhunter

A 72 reputation is very high. He is a philosopher with 29,000 posts, thousands of followers, and not following anyone.

Very interesting!

So, I go look at some of the posts to see how the posts are made. Here's a quick video in one post. Is this made by the author?

I am not sure, it might be, I have not actually read any @mindhunter's posts or ever seen them before, which is why I was shocked that he was the number one author because I'd never seen or heard of him.

Then I started scrolling back and saying, "Okay the numbers don't add up."

How is it @mindhunter can make photo posts like this, earning four dollars and getting 25 views, and becoming the top author?

This just doesn't make any sense.

So I kept scrolling and scrolling because I thought I must just be missing something.

Then I started to find some posts all made 12 days ago. This is one of the posts with a picture and $65, top-up voters, you can see exactly who voted it here.

$66 on a post seen by 21 people with 9 comments.

If you want a little comparison let's see a post of mine here. Here's a post I made that was seen by 685 people on Steem, and that I sent out to all my social media networks, to tens if not hundreds of thousands of more people, 679 votes.

Very generous upvotes for $215 in 16 hours, that's outstanding.

So the amount of views roughly correlates to my other votes.

I was curious to learn how it is possible to get posts where you just post a picture, and maybe this is the author in this one, and you get $79 with 26 views.

Well, interestingly enough, it seems that if the same people with a lot of Steem keep voting, you can just consistently do short posts like this and earn very well.

So the majority of the earnings are really short posts like this, over and over again, that are earning a lot of money.

Here's $84 for a quick video, 62 votes and 85 views.

I've continued to just look through and learn more.

Here's a picture of a cat.

$80 for this picture of a cat posted 17 days ago with 29 views on it.

Therefore, if you just roughly correlate views to earnings, or if you looked at that last post I did over here, it got 600 and something upvotes for $215, which is about 30 cents an upvote.

By comparison, if you look over on this cat post, 29 votes, that's about 10 times as much per view as I'm earning.

This still doesn't add up though because the total amount earned is two-and-a-half times what I'm earning. Now it can make sense here, but what about these recent posts, what's going on these recent posts?

Now it looks like more recent posts like this one got hit with a big down-vote, which removed almost all of the rewards on it by newsflash.

There are then several other posts, which have this massive down-vote on them.

So then with these huge down-votes wiping out the author rewards, I started to wonder, “Okay, how is it possible this author still earning?”

So I dug a little deeper and I went into SteemD, and then I noticed immediately upon just looking on the first page that these 100% upvotes come in all at once from these three different or four different accounts.

So I discovered these are all on comments.

This is a post from eight days ago, and then the upvotes are coming in right here on the comments.

Now, these upvotes are extremely well done, because the upvotes were put in at the very last minute, only giving people that want to flag these upvotes 12 hours to down-vote them before the rewards are paid out, very smart system here.

What's happening is the author is now making comments that you could easily find if you went through the comments. You should be able to see these upvotes in, if you can see the newest ones and scroll up the comments, upvotes have to be made when they're 6 days old.

So today's comments just came in right here. I could down flag these comments which would remove some of the rewards, but the author would still get the majority of the rewards. Meanwhile, I would have to use all of my voting power, which then I would not be able to give back to any of my existing followers.

In other words, it doesn't even make sense for me to even try and do anything about this, other than simply sharing it and making sure this is shown in the light. I'm not saying this is right or wrong. I'm saying we should be aware of how @mindhunter is earning receiving $20,000+ a month in rewards out of the same pool all of us are paid out of. Right now the top author is currently earning $20,000+ a month from discrete upvotes directly on comments that are then upvoted at the very last minute.

Some of these accounts have upvoted me in the past as well and I'm grateful for their upvote.

So there are several accounts voting up comments at the very last minute, and then sneaking under the radar with every day, hundreds of dollars of rewards from Steem.

This is done on a bunch of different posts, on some of the author's own posts, imagine that you get to make a comment with a few words and you earn $60 off of that comment.

"Jerry, you're just jealous because this system is even better than yours."

That's reasonable, you could also say that I'm impressed when someone's worked out a system to discreetly slide comments in.

You can see that not every single comment is upvoted up, but then there's one that slides in out of lots of other comments, which don't earn anything.

Then this last comment slides in and gets $65 on this post.

Extremely clever, you would have to essentially intentionally go to war on this one. If for example a person who is flagging them down before would have to sit there and watch comments exactly at the six day mark, and then hit them with the down-vote. Even then there is always all kinds of different strategies that could be done to get around that as well, which is why this is so interesting to look at.

You can just see comments after comments all over the place on different posts. This one is not a post by the author themselves, but a post by another author.

Now, this strategy might be even better if these comments were posted on trending posts, because they'd look legit then, and you could even get more uploads by other people on them and get more exposure, although I'm not sure if more exposure is the goal in this scenario.

There are lots of these comments hiding all over the place, and these are the newest ones. These could be then flagged down like this. I could put the flag up and remove it, but that would use my voting power.

I'd rather vote someone following me up than essentially try and take rewards away from someone else.

I've looked and found just over and over a bunch of these different comments like "Me too!"

Imagine saying, "Me too!" and you can earn $60 for it. I'd probably be saying, "Me too!" all day.

Look, I'm not showing you this as some angel who does everything right.

I posted a picture in my boxers and got $344 on it, so I'm not coming to you as some saint here who is just perfect.

I thought this would be interesting to show you. For further reading, see this post shared in the comments by @celsius100 at https://steemit.com/steemabuse/@mindhunter/a-message-to-newflash-a-sock-puppet-account-of-transisto-stop-downvoting-my-posts-and-acting-like-a-sociopathic-socialist-whale


#2 author on Steemit


Here is the number two author on Steem: @tamim

Now, the number two author has eluded me a bit, I still can't quite crack their system on it. I've taken a look over at their profile on Steemit and I still don't quite understand it.

Looks like this other author is just doing a brute-force approach, just doing a bunch of posts every single day, and then voting them up at the last minute to avoid being flagged.

If you look down at these posts then you can see this is an amazing strategy, because the author is just straight upvoting their own posts.

This author has 540,000 Steem and is literally single-handedly voting up almost completely their own posts.

This author can just literally vote their own posts up and there seems to be a clever strategy that's being used here as well, instead of trying to vote their own posts up and risking getting them in the trending category, whereas if the author voted their own posts up immediately they could guarantee landing on the trending page.

If they voted all these new posts up right away, every single one of them would go on the trending page. I imagine the author is looking at this and figuring if they did that they'd probably risk getting a lot more down-votes.

What the author does is very smart. The author is upvoting these posts after they've been around for a few days, then they don't go on the trending page because they are five days old.

You can see that at about five days old, the author then drops their full upvote on the post, and their full upvote is worth so much. Then they are earning the second highest amount on the entire website just by voting their own posts up and a few other people are voting them up as well, incredibly clever system.

You can always use steamd.com/@username to see whatever is happening in the backend of a user's account, it's an incredibly helpful tool.

I'm impressed to see this system, which is just incredible.

I hope in sharing this system with you that this is useful to see what is going on with the very top authors on Steem and some of the incredible things that are possible that you can do on Steem.

I've just simply looked at the results on SteemWhales.com, I've presented them and this is part of the downside. If you use systems that work too well you may get a lot of attention with them. I'm very grateful to be the number four author.

#3 author on Steemit


Here is the number three author on Steem: @papa-pepper

Papa-pepper has very much a similar posting strategy to me. Papa-pepper writes for Steem all day every day, has a big following and consistently is trying to contribute as much value as possible to Steem.

As it seems, the other top authors are consistently doing the same thing, therefore I hope looking at this has been useful for you today.

Thank you very much for reading this post and learning with me here today how the top authors are earning $10,000+ and as much as $20,000 in the case of the number one author, using some incredibly smart systems that are getting them hundreds of dollars of rewards every single day, in some cases without even needing to do more than say, "Me too!"

I love you, you're awesome. I hope to see you again soon.

Thank you very much for reading this post, which was originally filmed as the video below!

The feedback on the video was so positive that I spent about $100 to get this post created for you here out of the video, and then edited it prior to publishing! I appreciate you being here and I hope you have a wonderful day today.

If you found this post helpful on Steemit, would you please upvote it and follow me because you will then be able to see more posts like this in your home feed?

Love,

Jerry Banfield with edits by @gmichelbkk

Shared on:

PS: Witness votes are the most powerful votes we make on Steem because one vote for a witness lasts indefinitely! Would you please make a vote for jerrybanfield as a witness or set jerrybanfield as a proxy to handle all witness votes at https://steemit.com/~witnesses because when we make our votes, we feel in control of our future together?

Vote Jerry Banfield Steem Witness

Or

Jerry Banfield Steem Proxy

Sort:  

Hey Jerry,

with this post you lost me as a follower. I might be small and I don't matter in the steemit ecosystem, but it shall be a food for taught. This post is to underline that you should be first, at least this is what I understand from it. You try to present the two in front as scammer upvoters. They might be, but let's put it this way, you also upvote your own comments. Most of the minnows would be instantly flagged for it. As you got already a lot of traction people will just upvote everythig to get the curation reward.

Regarding the first two. Yes it is wrong what they are doing, but why don't you just flag them and then presenting this in here. I think 99% in here think they are wrong, but nobody has the balls to just send one flag. Well I might get flagged for this comment.

Regarding the witness vote. I don't know why I shall vote for you. You speak mostly about how much a witness makes, not about what a witness shall do. Most put a tremendous work on the platform and don't post anything as their are busy to keep the system running. Just check github to see how many people are involved, but are not having your visibility.
Also trying to bribe the whales to be a witness is so wrong:

You should be a witness for the things you do in the background not for the post you do. @nanzo-scoop told you already this:

Like said, even if I get flagged for this, it had to be said. If I would have been one of the top whales I would probably get some pretty good dollars for the comment.

Thank you for posting your thoughts, despite the risk we all take when doing so in any controversial topic.

I think it's a little unfair to call those "bribes", but I get your point. I think it wound have been appropriate for nanzo to keep the 20 and shrug. One could also interpret this as Jerry's way of paying for the time of a whale, which is valuable and could be otherwise spent not reading transfer messages in the wallet. At least he bothered to check how often they each voted for him, thereby having a reasonable reason to assume they might support him.

"Most put a tremendous work on the platform and don't post anything as their are busy to keep the system running. Just check github to see how many people are involved, but are not having your visibility."

I totally agree with you. However, if one is capable of outsourcing part of the technical work, could it not be potentially valuable to have a more public witness (whether that be Jerry or not?).

"Like said, even if I get flagged for this, it had to be said. If I would have been one of the top whales I would probably get some pretty good dollars for the comment."

I have been very pleased to see that the community has done very little comment flagging here today. I'm also happy to see you with those "pretty good dollars" you mentioned!

Huh? He's not exposing them as scammers...he is simply analyzing them and sharing what he discovered. You should should be grateful for Jerry's content!

this is better than floyd mayweather vs conor mcgregor

Lol.. I think it is pointless. Hoped for a constructive discussion but all that came was a video from a bad singer with some self upvote:

Thanks for this, as I'm convinced of doing the right thing with the comment and pointing some of the flaws out.

I agree with Alexvan here, when you see something wrong happening you should do something about it and not use it to defame someone else for your own good.

Actually I think he is doing something. He makes members aware of an intrinsic problem of the platform, which is a first important step of thinking about it and finding solutions. I don't think single users are to blame 'morally' to exploit a system if the system allows it. So it is not the point if @mindhunter or @tamim act 'morally' wrong or not.

But in my eyes it is obvious that extensive self-voting, comment voting and other (completely legal!) 'tricks' can be dangerous for Steemit in the long run. If only a few are doing that, the system will handle it, but if more and more users are getting aware, that self-voting (without writing long, elaborated articles or communicating with other members) is the most easy and effective way to make profit here, then more and more people will do exactly that (they have the right to do it actually). The consequences will be less communication between users, low quality articles, frustration of newbies, and of course a low Steem price. So even if extensive self-voting may lead to some short term profit in the long rung it should be counterproductive.

As I don't blame single users like @tamim or @mindhunter (as I said, people will always 'game' an exploitable system - and by the way I also upvote my articles and some comments), I think we should try to improve the system, so that it will be at least more difficult to exploit it.
Actually all recent changes made it more easy to upvote oneself:

  • unlimited numbers of articles per day (now some users just put 10 minimalistic posts per day and upvote them with full strength).
  • a fourfold stronger voting power of 100 % upvotes which make it very comfortable to make a maximum of profit with only a few votes.
  • a linear reward curve + the option to delegate Steem.

Actually all these changes also have their advantages but combined they favor self-voting a lot. Therefore I think we should collect ideas to minimize the effect of extensive self-voting and similar methods. I also haven't found any really good solution so far, but at least some ideas:

  • for example one could limit the number of upvotes which one can give any other (and also the own) account within a certain time frame. So that one would be forced to spread ones votes (I know, with many socket puppets self-voting would be still possible, but not such easy anymore).
  • the same could be valid per IP address. A limited number of upvotes to any account with the same IP address like the own one ...
    (These ideas may be inappropriate - I hope you will find much better ones! :) )

Maybe @jerrybanfield's article was not completely altruistic, but in my opinion he pointed out a real problem about which we should ponder to find suitable solutions.

I think Jerry is just trying to raise awareness in the community about potential flaws in the system, rather than to accuse others. He's always trying to build and improve Steemit. Just my 2 cents.

You are 100% right!!!

Uh oh a $60 comment! is @mindhunter behind this? lolol

I like this @newsflash guy

Seems like he uses votes wisely

I did not check what he voted till now, but he brought the comment on top and also made a small shield for it as who will take the risk to downvote it and risk a flag on other post.

He got balls, I like it!

@alexvan, this is quite an insightful post and you raise a lot of important questions about motives. I completely agree with you that being a witness is about work, not self aggrandizement.

One thing that i think needs to be kept in mind is the 'techniques' used by the self voters. You asked Jerry, why he didn't flag them? Fair enough. But they also were voting at the very last minute to maximize their gains. So, although i agree with the sentiment, he kind of has to go out of his way in order to do that.

But all in all, great comments.

Lots to ponder here, cheers

Bravos , Mr. Van , bravos. This needed to be said . I'm glad you are not a kiss-ass


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Many of us are afraid to speak the truth because one can hurt a whale's ego , and therefore , be flaged .

I too know the feeling of being afraid of writing something I know is right because I fear being actually not just having comment flagged but having someone coming in and flagging the last 7 days of work i've done, which makes me wonder if it is even safe to do a lot of steemit posting all at once and if we should space out our work or maybe use multiple accounts to give ourselves a backup? I am totally public about who I am exactly on my account because i was a victim of identity theft and i wanna make sure people know what the real me looks like so no one can impersonate me etc but i now see that i will need to have a second account with followers and anonymity to keep myself safe incase something happens to my account where i somehow loose my rep or followers or get flag attacked by someone bigger than me, and unfortunately as steemit gets bigger will just have more psychopaths joining who will find it fun to flag people to fuck with them

and we do have to be careful about rewarding people for bad behaviour but we are humans too who are we to say what i bad behavior? Well actually we can define bad behavior and i don't care if you disagree but doing things like Spamming copy paste messages or leaving one line 'Follow and upvote me please!" is bad behaviour and i know 99.999% of you agree! and there's plenty of things we all know is bad and we need a way to protect people who get flagged unfairly without taking away any power from even the potential abuser.... becvause that person evenfi they are abusing their steempower (lol absolute steempower corrupts absolutely or Steempower tripping) so anyway even if they ARE abusing thgeir steempower, they still havethat right, but then the community has the right to flag them back as a group after warning them to take away flags or suffer flags tjemselves, and if that doesnt work we can send the user to like a special list where we give them enouigh upvotes from whales to balance out any potential flags given to them in an attempt to wipe out their earnings... i think this will happen so rarelythat we will not even haveto have many spare iupvotes around to fix any potentiual probelms and we have a whole tribunal and everythingwhere we have the user get on steemspeak.com discord voice chat to actually TALK aboiut the situation and we hold a court rom type thing with @frystikken as the judge or we vote on a judge but this was we can have a soret of systemn to deal with this stuff without taking away flagging roi something drastic like that

maybe make it so you cant flag someone more than a cartian number? or make it like so u need permission from like another RANDOM user to flag the article???

OOOH i like that Joint flagging permissions like a sort of Multi Signature Wallet deal where you haveto like get teh permission of a random steemit user picked at random to actually go ahead and flag a user IF they have a certain amount of Steempower maybe

:O You should write a post with the title "steemit hacks"

lets see if he has the courage to respond to this comment. People trying to act smart by exposing others are not that smart.

I have been following jerry on mainly on youtube and I have always had a visceral feeling of punching him the moment he starts talking. (Thats my bad) but today was the last straw. I am done with him

I think this is not the best approach. If I can come up with an answer, I will just walk away and ignore him. Today I did unfollow him because the post was what I said before in the comment.

I don't care about the face or voice, I care about the data.

I see he brings new guys o steemit, which is good and needs to be appreciated. The crypto info also, nothing to argue.

The post today showed the blunt opportunism where shame was left aside. This was the comment targeted at. If you do something, stick to it, don't highlight others faults by hidding yours.

Also to be a witness needs some more than just braging about money. But this is how I see it.

FREE Author ATS tokens - Get 75 ATS tokens for FREE everyone that joins.

almost forgot!............. Me too! : P

I don't understand why you say minnows would be flagged for upvoting their own comment ?

The @sadkitten initiative is a bot flagging self upvote abuse and you'd almost have to be doing only that (not upvoting others) to be targeted.

Did not know about @sadkitten. I've seen some minnow with low numbers because of selfvotes. Some other that are bigger tend to downvote them. Usualy the bigger whales don't get a flag for selfvotes.

A bit jealous? Me too ;)

No, not this is the point, just read what I have writen. I don't care how much money one makes as I'm a capitalist by nature. The point was that the two who make the most money have been presented as steemabusers and the third is clean, where it is not. This is it.

wow super useful insights thanks!

Well said, to me it now seems Steemit is mostly a play between people who have more powers here. There is still room for creativity here, because truth always prevails sooner or later. But many members quit as a result of frustration.

The people who are on top, should start a trend where they would manually look at some of the new people's post and upvote them , to encourage people coming here. Otherwise, soon steemit will be left with only people who have already lot of power and will not add up many people, thus leaving the overall health of this echo system in a bad health.

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Whoaaaaaa, ME TOO!
upvotes please LOL 😂

Your learning... me too lol :).

Don't be jealous Jerry, just start doing the same thing... and you'll be #1 in no time at all mate! 🐳

Hello @luisneira, can you help me with answering my question.
Will I get flagged NSFW for this picture from one of my photo shoots if I use it in my intro post?
Adam&Eve shoot.jpg

borderline. id assume yes

I'd assume no, as there are no sexual organs on display.

deleted

Interestingly @mindhunter's 100% vote is worth a meagre $0.19, worse still he's been drained to 17.86% voting power.
Bottom line, the guy is a hit and run farmer trying to harvest and clear out of steemit as quickly as possible

Sure, but you have to produce good work as well. Jerry gets paid because he produces good work.

Me too! Not easy for me to follow... as.. I am new to Steemit. I just started using it. I need to learn a lot from you. I am following your account, can you please follow me as weel?

Cheers...

too true!!!

The irony is that I started upvoting mindhunter because of this video https://steemit.com/hf20/@jerrybanfield/we-double-our-steem-power-upvoting-ourselves-every-181-days from @jerrybanfield.

I didn't have time to post and upvote myself so I made a deal with @mindhunter. He was effectively buying votes from me like the dozens of other vote buying schemes on steemit.

I started upvoting mindhunter's posts and had to upvote his comments when @newsflash started to notice and flag.

There was no ill intention from voting at the last minute, it was purely to make the most out of my vote.

This has been discussed in lenght the last few days and people can read my posts to see my stance on it.

If a minnow was doing this there would have been no flag and no one would be bragging about it, so this means large stake holder are discriminated, they can not use their steem power freely which is stupid considering they are the ones feeding the whole thing.
Ultimately the question we need to ask ourselves is : Do we want to prevent investors from making money? and is there a good and a bad way to make it?

My response is that everyone supports the system by default just by owning a share in it and so they should be able to use it as they wish. You have to stay powered up in order to profit from the system thus profiteers contribute to increase the price of steem.

I have stopped upvoting @mindhunter a few days ago because @newsflash was flagging all his posts. I realize there may be other better ways of supporting the community, however I didn't have time to scout for content and voting for @mindhunter was the easy hassle free way of doing it.

@jerrybanfield I think you are an asset to the community, what you have done for steem so far is amazing which is why you are both on my author and witness voting list. You definetely deserve the top spot.

Ultimately the question we need to ask ourselves is : Do we want to prevent investors from making money? and is there a good and a bad way to make it?

I don't judge this behavior morally - maybe everybody has the right to post 10 minimalistic posts per day and then just upvote them (like @sandrino does) or also his comments.
The question is however what would happen to the Steemit community if everybody starts doing that, because it's the most simple and effective way to earn steem. Will we still see elaborated long articles and communication between the platform users? And in case not, what would that mean for the growth of the community and the Steem price? I fear the consequences would be everything but positive.

If everyone did that, you'd see a race to the bottom in quality. A trend like that wouldn't be so hot for Steemit's reputation. But it is a beta product and it's going to take time to work it out.

Since that kind of activity seems beyond my sphere of control, I'm just going to focus on the content.

I hate to make the "snowball effect" argument, but it does seem that Steemit would devolve into a cesspool of circle-jerking that was not much better than a MLM scheme if we were all to maximally exploit the system as "allowed" by the code.

Curation of content is not very incentivised and most people do not spend time on things with low short term gains. @mindhunter was not doing anything different than what many other people are doing. Mindhunter just did it on a larger more detectable scale. Whats kind of even more ironic is the fact that even @jerrybanfield is profiting from this because he is writing about it with a profitable post. :)

I think we need substantially higher curation rewards. We should make self-voting or vote-trading the LESS efficient way of maximizing Steem gain.

Even super-saiyan human curators like @ats-david may have trouble keeping up with curation rewards relative to straight-self voting, if the rewards I have seen from curation are any example.

I'd love to hear his thoughts on how we could make curation more rewarding.

Lmao right! At the end of the day everyone is here to make money :-)

hahaha you are right!!!

@azfix you're right the combined power of all the systems we are not noticing is probably more than the top 10 authors combined from bot networks voting up comments $1 or $5 hundreds of times a day to authors posting on hot topics like this and then getting a lot of upvotes as has happened so far here on this post. None of us can totally separate our selfish motives from our unselfish ones :)

I agree with you there on the curation vs. posting decision. I love to write, so I tend to write more than curate. But we need curators.

I read some time ago that the best way to allocate time for steemit is to post 2 or 3 times a week and spend an hour or two per day just curating and commenting. I'm beginning to get the sense that is what needs to be done.

Are you really asking this question ? "is there a good and a bad way to make money?"

@snowflake thank you very much for replying here along with upvoting the post and voting for me as a witness! I love that you started the upvotes after the most I made :)

You have made a powerful point that I agree with in that investors need good motivation to hold Steem Power and be active here. It will not matter what authors contribute if too many investors pull out and dump Steem because of an inability to earn a good return. I know as an investor with my life savings here I feel I have a right to get a return also. Curation currently does pay but not nearly as well as posts or upvoting ourselves.

The question is how do we both ensure authors and investors both have a way to share in the rewards that most of us are happy with? Currently it is not simple or easy for either. Authors struggle to get started while authors at the top are consistently rewarded. Investors not posting or wanting to spend hours reading articles each day to decide where to give the very powerful upvotes have few options to get a good return in both time and money while investors setting up systems to guarantee a return often are earning a lot from auto upvoting posts accepted by curation guilds to upvoting authors that consistently earn a lot from posts to accepting a portion of the upvote back as a thank you.

How do we make it easier for investors and authors to help each other in a way that readers enjoy the most?

I appreciate your reply here especially because writing this post with you as both a top witness upvoter and the upvoter featured in the comment felt like walking a tightrope. I am very relieved to read your reply and am grateful for your kind feedback here!

The question is how do we both ensure authors and investors both have a way to share in the rewards that most of us are happy with?

I think we should go back to a 50/50 model. Currently it is 75% authors 25% curators but used to be 50/50 which was better imo.
According to this rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture) only 1% of users actively create content, so why should the 1% authors receive more than the 99% lurkers?
Someone was saying recently that there is too many authors compared to readers on steemit. I believe a 50/50 could rebalance this ratio a bit. It's important that we have engaged users that actually read content..

This seems to be a fuss about nothing. @mindhunter has put massive effort into building his account, but hasn't made that much money compared with some. I think he deserved some good rewards. I can't see that he is going to make $20k

I think you're misunderstanding the situation.

"I can't see that he is going to make $20k"

What you "can see" is irrelevant. This is past-tense. Already happened/happening.

"hasn't made that much money compared with some."

Demonstrably false. He's the highest earner on the platform last month.

You handled this very well and your response is quite valuable.

I don't actually have a problem with @mindhunter or especially you in this matter. I feel that not only is it the right and responsibility of anyone with investment to use it the way they want but also feel that we need to implement reliable ways for investors to easily profit here on Steemit.

The key to the price of $teem going up is new investors, and big ones are the ones who really make it jump up.
Yet big investors are only going to come here if they can reliably and quickly/easily profit on their investment. If it takes time its not worth it because most people with a lot of money are already very busy making money....

Great to see you a part of this discussion and contributing your intelligent and reasonable perspective.
This is an important topic. I can see how anyone who is not making good rewards would be upset by something like this but they wouldn't make ANYTHING at all if it were not for the big investors.....

SO rather than try and make the investors figure out how to game the system how about just provide easy and clear ways for them to profit on their investment simply and quickly.
I very much enjoyed reading this post and seeing your comment made it even better.

SteemON!

Minnows are being voted down every day for misuse of the vote buying programs. These posts should also be flagged for disagreement on rewards.

@whatsup The 'disagreement on rewards' thing comes from the false idea of scarcity. People wouldn't care what others were earning if there was unlimited money to go around. The good news is that there is unlimited money, since the price of steem can increase indefinetely. Unfortunately the majority of users fail to grasp this concept.

It is frustating to see minnows comes up with a 4hours of post and not hitting a 1/100 worth of that self voting post of a whales. To have work hard is the only choice of minnows and to work smart if the smarter choice of whales.

Yep, but unfortunately, it's still Reward = Quality * Reach.

It's not Reward = Quality.

Steemit, like Life, is a popularity contest

got linked to this post...most important one ive seen yet.

convinced me to set you as proxy and resteem. gave a big vote too jerrybanfield. good work.

@nikez452 thank you very much for resteeming this and trusting me with your witness votes by setting me as your proxy! What advice do you have for me going forward here on Steem?

i think you are already doing it. you were very careful to write this post without making anyone too mad and its a tough topic. you work a lot and made it to #3 so far.

as long as you keep showing you want whats best for steemit your popularity can only increase. it is difficult to find any problems with your recent posts and actions.

keep it up.

Interesting and very informative post. Thanks for sharing your findings.

Jerry, I daresay you've stumbled upon a can of worms that was only recently just opened. I noticed about a week ago that Mindhunter started getting flagged by a group of curators. transisto at least, and I think Bernie too. Scroll back in Mindhunter's feed and he posted about it, and you can check the comments of those posts for further info.

I will comment more thoroughly (time-permitting) once I have a chance to finish the other half of your article.

Thank you for this detective work, and your attitude when approaching it from the start to try to learn is top-notch.

Have a great day!

I wonder if this is something CommentWealth could help fight? The gears are starting to turn...

Jason I noticed the same which is why the comments are being made now instead of the posts because posts are easier to flag than the comments. At the same time, if the posts are being flagged, does the author have some responsibility to consider why the flags are coming and adjust contributions accordingly?

I think it depends on how much the author in question cares about the social norms of Steemit. They are the main "thing" at odds with maximizing one's investment.

The fact remains that the game-theoretically best way to make money on Steem (for minimal effort, non-authors) remains upvoting your own hidden comments with high stake. Unless something changes in the code, or all abuse spontaneously stops, this is a situation we're going to have to live with. Given the anarchist leanings around here, it may be that these authors are simply (selfishly) making the correct game theory decisions for operating on the platform, as it currently stands.

Interestingly, I noticed some of the accounts in question upvoted your post, like Snowflake.

So, if the formula for authors is Reward = Quality * Reach, and investors want to maximize their profits by placing their votes in ways that increases the value of their investment, but don't have or want to spend the time searching for quality content, then in a nutshell the way to find a win - win solution is to marry the needs of these two groups.

Is that a fair statement?

That sounds very reasonable to me. It could be tough to do.

Traders would hopefully stick to liquid Steem, and therefore never vote. Their stake is simply ignored for rewards-pool calculations.

Investors (people with Steem Power, not liquid Steem) in Steem hopefully have some belief in the fundamentals of the platform.

I think the idea of powering down was partially to help separate "traders" from real investors in the platform. Most real investors in the platform would be either content creators or big users of social media.

The problem I think we've seen is that the amount of gains that can be made voting for yourself, or vote-trading, are large enough to tempt traders (or anyone willing to hold 13 weeks) into maximizing this value. Once other people start doing it, the rest of us are forced to do so or fall further and further behind.

I think people will always act in their own best interests on average, so we need a way to encourage everyone's best interests to align with the group.

Perhaps we can figure out a way to rework curation to be based more on rewards given, than rewards given after you give rewards. Somehow, curation has to be more valuable.

Everybody has the right to decide how to earn money on Steemit the way that is most convenient and possible for him/herself and nobody should judge or flag that; but again, you don't live in an ideal world.

If this is indeed the established cultural norm, most users would just post spam and self-upvote it.

If that's what we want, we should establish that as a community, so that those of us following the social norms are no longer game-theoretically disadvantaged.

I expect that you neglect to consider that the rewards pool is a common resource. When you upvote yourself, you draw down the rewards pool that all others depend on for their own rewards. Therefore they have a vested interest in your actions, because your actions impact their own rewards.

The rewards you just upvoted yourself will decrease the reward I may get from someone who upvotes my comment, for example.

This is why I stand on principle, and never upvote myself.

My intention is to benefit others with what I contribute. I am not very concerned with my own financial rewards (but I am weird) as I have simple needs, and meet them through work.

I hope you are able to understand that everyone that is impacted by your voting actions, and thus has not only a right, but an obligation, to judge it, and flag it if they feel it's abusive and they need to do something about it.

As you can see from the flag I DIDN'T cast, I do not feel it my obligation to be your judge. Also, my measly $.02 vote means you are safe from me. Just don't be a big meany and flag ME =p

Well it's not free money... they first invested heavily into STEEM to get their voting power!

Some of them mined it when you could

What is being done with it now is probably more important than how they got it initially.

Either everyone is going to do this, or nobody can do this. I don't have a solution.

Yeah pretty much how I see it. Steemit is so polarizing to me lately. Everyday I come across a new valuable post or cool person. Yet daily I also find big issues.

Yeah, not so much. Most of the Steem that exists was mined before Steemit even had been created.

@berniesanders got his stake that way, and so did @dan, @ned, and some few other early insiders that controlled the mining, even relaunching the chain when someone else had mined a substantial stake that they couldn't counter.

The playing field isn't level. You can't even mine today.