How to stop almost all abuse on Steem (Edited)
Too often I have read posts about abuse and reward pool rape. Some users try to exploit Steem and get more than they actually deserve. I am talking mostly about bot upvote abuse. The solutions so far didn't really work.
With some users trying to exploit the dMania bot as well, I have to deal with it somehow. I want to shed some new light on the problem and make it clear for everyone where the actual problem is.
Why only bot upvote abuse?
I would argue that bot abuse is the only real abuse that exists on the platform atm. Every other post that receives high rewards was upvoted by some real person. That person invested a lot of money so that he is able to make those high upvotes. He can use those upvotes however he likes. If he likes to upvote his own comments to $200, that's his choice. It's probably not the best idea or a good strategy for an investor, but it's his choice.
It isn't any different when a low stake user upvotes his own posts and comments all the time. Nobody complains about that, but it is actually the same thing.
If some user upvotes content of the same user all the time (@haejin or others), it's not abuse either. Looks like it and a lot of people don't like that, but not really abuse. Some users with a high stake choose @haejin as their special friend and upvote all his posts. They have invested a lot in the platform, so they can do that. It's their choice. It's probably not the best thing to do if you are interested in the long term growth of the platform, but if they think @haejin posts are their letters worth in gold so be it.
People can use their own stake to fight that kind of Steem Power use or they can let it happen. Again it's their stake and they should use it as they see fit.
Where the real problem lies
Most people don't realize where the actual problem is. For me it is as clear as day and I wonder why I haven't seen any posts about it. The only real abuse that happens on Steem is by paid upvote bots. Not their existence, but how they are designed at the moment and the amount of power they have on Steem.
People normally use paid upvote bots to boost their posts a little and make them a little bit more visible. Nothing wrong with that. On Steem there is already a feature for that -> Promotion. The problem is that nobody really uses it. Mainly because of the way it was designed. Promoted posts on Steemit are only visible in their separated tab. There are a lot of ads and stuff by ICOs. Most people don't want to look at that. The quality of content is lower in general on the promotion tab.
Other platforms had the same problem and they integrated ads and paid posts into the regular content. That way those posts would get more exposure and people would only see ads/paid posts from time to time. Bad design by Steemit in my opinion.
That was one of the driving factors why paid upvote bots came to existence. There was a demand for it by the users. They are willing to pay so that their posts receive more exposure. New users don't have many followers and it's hard for them to get started on Steemit. I had the same problem at the beginning. Paid upvote bots can help you with that. They provide a valid service to their users, so there is no real problem for paid upvote bots in general.
The actual problem

There is a big problem if people use paid upvote bots who don't care about the content and just want the rewards. They just create random posts and use paid upvotes to collect rewards.
Some upvote bots received a shitload of Steem Power in the last few months. The reason is because they are money printing machines for their creators and everyone who delegates to them. The rewards that those bots generate are huge. It's hard to find the actual numbers, but you can guess from the amount of Steem Power that those bots have. The big upvote bots generate tens of thousands of USD every day. That is more than any witness, author or app on Steem receives.
By delegating Steem Power to a paid upvote bot it becomes suddenly legit for whales to self vote all the time. Before they had to create posts and upvote them. If those posts provided zero value, it would be visible to others. Like I said before not real abuse, but probably not the best idea. People who don't like that could downvote them with their stake. Normally people would never upvote with 100% of their stake themselves all the time. Almost nobody does that. No whale would do that who is interested in the growth of the platform.
Except with paid upvote bots that sort of behaviour is suddenly legit. People delegate to upvote bots and receive almost 100% of their investment, without getting the bad repuation of exploiting the reward pool and selfvoting. That is the real problem and it's bad, really bad. Can't be the only one who sees a problem there.
What can be done?

There is no way to stop or regulate the paid upvote bots. They are part of the system now. We have to deal with it. People who delegate to them should ask themself if that is really in the best interest for the growth of Steem.
There is one simple change that would resolve the issue of abuse with paid upvote bots: Reduce the amount of Steem Power delegated to paid upvote bots and make the use of paid upvotes more expensive.
The price of paid upvotes depends like everything on an open market on supply and demand. At the moment the supply of Steem Power for those bots is very high. So high that using them on any content can generate profits for their users. If the supply would be less, the price of paid upvotes would rise and there wouldn't be any auto profit anymore. People who want to use paid upvotes would only use them if they think their posts are valuable and will generate future rewards for them. Abusers would loss money if they use them at random content.
So all it takes is a few whales to stop delegating to paid upvote bots or just delegate less. One simple click for a few users to stop almost all abuse on Steem. Easy as that.
I hope that some whales see this post and think about what they are doing and how bad those actions are for the Steem platform. Stop thinking only about short term profits and think about the future of the platform.
Final words
I am on vacation now and I actually don't want to deal with stuff like that atm. Nevertheless I think it is very important that people understand where the actual problem is.
I am pusing this post with paid upvote bots for maximum visibility. Like I said not the paid upvote bots are the problem, but the amount of Steem Power they have.
To stop abuse of the dMania bot by paid upvote bots, I could ban all of them. That would solve the problem on dMania, but not in general. Like I said paid upvotes provide a valuable service and are important to new users. A ban isn't the best solution.
You don't stop abuse by punishing the abuser. The only way to stop abuse is to make it impossible in the first place. Like I said, just reduce the delegations. One simple action that would change everything. Paid upvotes should never generate auto profit for anyone.
This post turned in a shit show and that wasn't really my intention. I wanted to bring attention to a problem and provide a solution. That problem wasn't recognized as such before. At least I achieved one of my goals by starting a discussion about the problem. At least now more people know about it.
I am going to remove the dMania upvote from this post. With the amount of SBD that I have used to promote this post, I will lose money.
I will stop caring what happens on Steem and Steemit from now on. I will focus my attention on dMania. Now you have one less person who gives a shit.
Some people here turned this post and discussion in the complete opposite direction. Some of them just don't like dMania, some of them have a personal dislke for me and others were paid upvote bot providers who felt attacked by my post.

How to stop almost all abuse on Steem:
Undelegate to Dmania.
[EDIT] - Upvoted for visibility and self-aggrandizement. Also...Streisand Effect.
I was hoping you could upvote my posts as well for visibility and self-aggrandizement. Also for Streisand and Butterfly Effects. Thanx!
Plus he paid for upvote bots to get the post noticed.
This is Streisand abuse!
Streisand effect! I would vote up this comment, but I'm too busy voting up NNLTU, lol.
You fucking rock man,
How to stop almost all Streisand abuse:
Undelegate to Dmania
LOL! That word!
Well, it's may be one of all solution to solve the problems. Delegate only for important things and to person who needed as instead.
The reason DMania upvotes above average posts is that it has value. People will always pay upvoting bots because the system is designed towards that path.
The solution is to direct those wasted SBD to DMania itself. Pay to become a curator of DMania.
This way you create a quality meme platform and increase its value.
Hey zombee I just wanted to kindly ask for a boost (upvote) on dmania.lol, because I genuinely want to contribute to a funnier dmania by posting only the funniest, high quality memes I find on a regular basis. If you are interested in helping a minnow grow on dmania, in order for him to make dmania grow further, you can upvote my post if you wish: https://steemit.com/dmania/@johnnydabaus/rofl-zg1hbmlh-7tbh9
thank you D:/@ats-david
excellent comment
please come in my blog
Weird, I posted this video earlier today (in fact, it was still in my clipboard!). It was in response to someone saying "Doge Sauce". Looks like Streisand is everywhere.
Elvis is everywhere as well! :)
Your funny Edit comment made me laugh. upvoted, but not a big one.
wow excellent comment
Delegations are not the problem, neither are upvote bots. If neither of these existed, you'd still see the same problems with self-voting of bad posts.
The primary problem is the current blockchain rules combined with the rise of SBD above its intended value has skewed the incentives drastically towards self-voting versus voting for content you actually like. I wrote a post about this some time ago: https://steemit.com/steem/@blocktrades/voting-abuse-and-ineffective-curation-a-proposal-for-blockchain-level-change
I disagree with this statement:
Minnows self-voting themselves would never be able to move the same amount of VP as voting bots and delegations are able to do on their behalf.
Please consider the following chart as evidence:

Source: Steemit Statistics by @arcange
This graph shows the cumulative distribution of the voting power on this platform and proves that minnows have effectively very few to no influence.
I know that you have a personal interest in keeping the image of voting services high, but we should be honest about the correlations.
Also, it's not to say I don't think there are some problems with vote bots. This post is actually representative of what I consider worst about them: they cumulatively allow someone to upvote a post to the top of the trending page without much if any support. I'd like to see the bots put more limit s on how much they will upvote any one post. Lately I've been thinking that I should downvote posts like this that hit near the top of the trending page and just seem to derive most of its rewards strictly from the bots.
Somebody took a lesson from Goldman Sachs with them stats
I do think voting bots have a useful place on the platform and I do profit from them, but I watch the value of my account pretty regularly and I can say that I'm much more interested in the price of Steem than I am in profits from vote bots. I just don't think that getting rid of vote bots would really improve the problems with good curating right now.
Hi surfermarly,
Thank you for sharing the graph. We all have visions on how this will develop. Personally, I am happy to see new end-users getting some of the Steem as I would like to see a better distribution of Steem. I see this as a good thing even if some of it is sold it at least has the possibility of ending up in some different hands. I realize this is not a popular vision.
Sure minnows couldn't upvote themselves or sockpuppets for much, but certainly whales could and did. I stand by my statement.
I totally second this
Ban self-voting and revenue from delegated SP (that is, make it a voluntary DONATION) and watch these problems disappear.
Oooh. What a great idea!
How are you going to implement that or say it another way, is there even a way to do that?
This makes sense, like congress won’t change the rules that benefit the people with the true power.
No it would just go underground and more secretive. You really think it would stop selling votes? If so I got some lake front property for sale, interested?
I personally try my best to make good content and I only ever upvoted myself when I originally started, my vote carries no weight, my voice is often not heard and it seems unfairly to watch memes get hundreds and something I put a lot of effort into go without likes because there is no real incentive to upvote a minnow other than site expansion and keeping people involved just enough? Where do we go from here @blocktrades @berniesanders @zombee
@dizzyjay This one of the problems; the platform wants to be both an investment and a social platform, so how can it be fair to both the shark that came in with $100K and the Minnow that started with nothing? Since some Whales give themselves $100+ votes for a 5 minute blabla video that took all of a half our to make, I refuse to feel bad about my paltry $0.03 self vote for a video that took travel, 2 cameras, 4 microphones and an entire day+ to record and edit.
No.
The rise of SBD has nothing to do with this problem.
As a user of upvote bots I admit they help promote spam.
Another problem is that curation does not work:
https://steemit.com/curation/@stimialiti/what-you-need-to-know-about-curation
Curation is a donation and yields little to none benefits to the curator.
Yep. Curation rewards are designed to be pretty comparable to author rewards, but with SBD being what it is, they're pretty worthless. If SBD were $1 people would have a renewed interest in curation trails and the like. Right now, there's no point in voting for anything, far more profitable to sell your upvote to a bot.
The current situation here is no different from the real-world politics. The rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer. But those poor who are willing to suck the rich's long dirty dick are blessed with leftover foods sometimes. The reality of this overrated illusion we called life!
Thank you, new follower and upvote from me
Your old post is great!
Says the account obviously making tons of money using them.
I think it comes down to high value accounts/users getting a bit greedy(if you can even call it that). I mean it’s natural to like your own posts and such but what’s self promotion and what’s too much?
I read your post. Impeccably written. I think it is by far the best proposal I've seen, and easily implemented. Give the first five minutes the same curation points, take the 30 minute standard away and make it 5, split the rewards 50/50 so curators are more inclined to upvote OTHERS, thereby incentivizing some of the money back into the community rather than self, which is essentially the ticket to keeping this thing going. Bravo @blocktrades. Bravo.
i read youre post and you are right in everything you say
Voting bots are contributing to the same problem though. It is providing upvotes people would otherwise not be getting.
With the current system, these voting bots are encouraged given many can only afford a few dollars, not a lengthy investment in the platform through steem power.
I don't know of a proper solution, though pinning the price of SBD would not change much. It would only lessen creators rewards, it wouldn't create new demand for better content.
Right now, there IS good content on this website that is being ignored, while shittier content is favored from self voting and voting bots. If SBD was lower, people would still self vote and use bots, taking away from better content.
The system needs to be self moderated better, having more upvotes for good content and more flags for bad content.
Voting power going down based upon the number of votes is a hindrance to the idea, as this keeps people from both flagging and voting. Many people choose to not upvote good content because they know it will take from their future rewards, should they want to upvote their own content.
Perhaps increasing curation rewards, decreasing author rewards would help solve this?
I cannot think of an excellent solution, though I hope I am adding to the discussion.
Cheers
How ironic, I make a comment against voting bots and get spam flagged by voting bots.
Voting bots have the potential to be a good thing, though idiots like bernie, marky, grumpycat etc are the ones who are using them.
We need decentralized bots, for the good of the community, not used for profit like these scumbags that use them.
I see you got caught scamming hahaha! At least you got upvotes from @jerryscamfield and @haejin (The Steemit Donkey) you're only missing upvotes from @craig-grant and @trevonjb to fully complete your scammers circle jerk.
Do you refer to his participation in rewards not made through dmania?
Hahahahaha!!!
I’m so behind on this. I thought some of these were good bots/upvoters...
whats Jerry Banfield guilty of?
Wow, look at you using your delegated SP to upvote yourself. Are you intentionally trying to make yourself and dmania a target? You're very close and I'm not sure you want that to happen... I suggest you stop promoting your own bullshit with power that was delegated to you to support the comnunity, not line your own pocket.
Edit: I will soon start opposing all dmania votes. Good luck to your scammy ass.
He is even downvoting with @dmania. That's not how those delegated SP from Steemit should be used...
Wait.
So he used an upvote bot.
Then he used @dmania to downvote the upvote bot that he had paid to upvote him!?!
dude....What. The. Actual. Fuck.
That's.. I don't even know. Bipolar? MPD?
you are very lucky man
Why people are so greedy? They already have hundreds of thousands of dollars and yet they would do anything to get more. Look at Elon Musk, this guy knows what's up and how to use wealth for benefit of all.
With a spacesuit man in a car flying through space?
That is the big question @nameless-berk! "Why people are so greedy?" Even me, I can't think about it? What is their goal? They are not satisfied with what they have. I, I am dreaming to have 20,000 SP for the charity works that I am doing to help the other people in need. But in my situation, it is very hard! So, I need to direct to other whales that I know for their help!
Almost 40% of my earn is for the charity! I don't even have my own... But I am happy to help others... You can check my latest charity works for the satisfaction...
Thanks,
@kennyroy
I <3 Elon. He's my boyfriend. :0)
Shots fired!!! 🔫 🚓🚓🚓
Hey man @berniesanders what is wrong with your reputation why is it in -ive,may my upvote be of any help?
I think no am too small here sorry can't help you still am upvoting maybe it will change someday
I think he lost his reputation trying to fight @haejin. but he was no match lol R.I.P his reputation
that right sir,
for people who already have a great power or the investors with a lot of talkative capital to say there is a good thing why we plankton want as good as any for the article alone do not care and voting bot is what makes the sound version because there is voting that looks a bit but enough for any result of our work
Going hard on this one...
please help my vote because i need your vote
nice blog post
please vote back
I new to Steemit and I can see that you are one of the problem all ready...ready to bedown voted with the rest that point out the truth you are just spaming and saying it's not me no no no not me when we can all see the truth it's not just you granted but you are part of the problem bots should be banned fallstop.
and Up voting your own post shouldn't be allowed.
that would stop the problem not someone like you copying post that have already been posted rewording them then saying i'm not part of the problem when you are.
not going to down vote you or up vote you you don't desever the time to do it.
very interesting I really like what you share.
I will wait for your next posting
newbie here please approve me aal
good
@berniesanders, what's the likelihood @zombee paid for the stock images in this post? Just curious 'cause it's making a lot of dough.
I used that Steem Power because it was a problem on dMania as well, so it concerns the dMania community.
I already thought I wouldn't make many friends by discussing this topic. It is still very important that people see there is a problem. If people think or talk about it, I achieved my goal.
I pushed that post for maximum visibility, not for personal gain. There would have been much better or easier ways to do that if I want to fill my own pockets. I wouldn't have spend hours writing that post and bringing it to everyone's attention.
The ones who are really filling their pockets on Steem are not directly visible to everyone, they are hiding behind the scenes.
You’re full of shit. You do see I can counter every dmania vote, yes?
is right but there are people who do not see it from that point of view and misinterpret it thinking that you only use the publication to fill your pockets
like getting a good comment
Zombee, Thank you for the information
The comments preceding each of bernie's auto-flags are earning him hundreds of dollars per day. See for yourself on http://steem.supply

Do you really think you deserve 30+ SBD for the garbage that comes out of your mouth? You are the problem here.
I think that @berniesanders intentionally voted so much for visibility rather than for money, if he had wanted, he could have added much more value to his comment, if you look at his comments tab you'll see that he usually does not upvote himself if there is no valid reason. He is a little bit crazy, but I like him.
Wow look at you using bots to upvote yourself. Are you intentionally trying to make yourself a target?
Keep on flagging me!
It is the ONLY power you have!
Since you clearly do not communicate well with words, all you have is flags!
You always prove my points for me! Thanks :)
Don't you think that it's a bit weird that you paid some voting bots in order to bring the problem with paid voting bots into focus? :-)
There have been uncountable articles about that. The reason why nobody cares is that those who hold larger stakes in SP profit from these services through delegation.
Shit rolls downhill. As long as the most powerful are fine with this situation, nothing will change. End of story.
If I were you I'd take my valuable SBD to invite my girlfriend for dinner or something like that - but I wouldn't ever spend it in a voting bot :-)
Steem on!
I already said paid upvote bots provide a valuable service. Using them is not the problem, but the price of paid upvotes. I can't and should never be possible to get auto profit by using them.
I am promoting this post so that many people see it. I want that the problem is recognized by more people and maybe somebody will change their mind.
I know that you boosted the article in order to get more visibility. But as long as people pay for these services they won't see any need in stopping to offer them. Building a followership takes a certain time, people only need to be a bit more patient. Nothing worth comes easy.
Whats the reasoning for flagging those bot comments?
Maybe I'm missing something, but the ROI after curation rewards on the larger bots is almost always slightly negative these days...so as far as i can tell most of the time people are not profiting directly from the bot's vote, but rather from the increased visibility, which is exactly as it should be in my opinion.
Vote selling is a market just like anything else. If people can get instant profits from bot votes then that just means it's an inefficient market. That's exactly one of the problems I aimed to solve with the bot tracker website and as I mentioned above it seems to be working most of the time.
Right there with surfermarly on this one, you made a massive post about bad upvoting bots and then used them yourself to bring attention to your post.
This is why myself and others use these services right now because the system internal here on steemit called promotions is utter garbage in terms of getting you viewership and any type of return value on your investment. And yes paying to promote your post is an investment.
I see no issues with it at all and in many cases the bots operate at a lose for voters. The ROI is always always in the negative. Good for the bot owner but then again they are providing a service. Its all fair game I say.
From my personal point of view the fact that they offer the service doesn't legitimize the service itself. It's all just for their own benefit and the gap between rich and poor will be growing and growing. This platform pretends to be the alternative to governmental structures, but in fact it's just a copy of that. The power is in hands of very few, and so the money is.
We can sit and watch... or stand up and opt for a different world. It's our choice.
I'm glad that you're brave enough to tell it to everyone sir @zombee :)
I wouldn't use them too, only if I had a little more followers who upvoted my content. Sometimes it's really painful when I spend so much time generating some content and get nothing out of it. While sometime I just boost a random photo and actually make some money on it.
Guilty as charged on the abuse of bots, but hey, I need to survive too.
you are a user with a reputation of 56 so you already earned some money at steemit. Just be persistent and keep posting good content.
Send me a message at steemit.chat or discord @tagsplanet, I can give you some tips on how to build a followership if you want :-) Voted your last two articles, hope that helps a bit.
Exactly. When you only have gas and matches chances are you are going to start a fire, but when the fire starts they think they can put it out with gasoline. No one really goes back to roots of how things work in real life they think they can make some sterile online platform and people will come and write quality content so they can draw in more and more people that way. That never works. So they basically want this to be like reddit but with rewards for your time that can only work if you take cash out of the equation and make a system that will split rewards somehow not make it public so anyone can manipulate it not a single content creator will benefit from this nor will the platform. No wonder most of the titles this days are click baits and other ugly shit. This platform at this point in time is like when you see a starving artist on the street playing some instruments trying to survive another day, but still i think talented guy on the street will still make a better buck since people understand situation even if they dont like hes music they still might give him some money. Here you need to not speak about platform or other people even if they are scamming or doing other illegal shit that doesnt do good for anyone, or they will make you invisible. Only shit that gets promoted is stuff that makes them more rich they dont have community interest in sight. Its sad but true. And i think they have no vision.
How much SBD for a Happy Meal?
With the SBD burnt in this post you could invite a whole group of friends.
SHOTGUN!
This response sits well with me @surfermarly and you have my Follow now.
Hypocrisy at it's finest.
How would you approach this issue? I'm new here so I'm not yet familiar the politics of this platfarm.
There has been tons of articles about it. Powering up your SBD would be better than spending it on an upvote bot too but I like the taking my gf out for dinner idea so if you see me cashing out some SBD to my bittrex this year it's cause we're hungry :)
organic traffic and exposure is my favorite kind. As lon as shit continues to roll down hill they'll never have to smell it but we can try to fling some poo up there every now and then and eventually it may help.
In the case of the bots, I think we're in too deep to stop them. The guys profiting the most from it will never agree to stop them.
Totally agree on this why are using the bid bots with a large quantity if you just explained that isn't the way to go. Ur contradicting yourself sir!
Good thought @surfermarly, you have well captured my thought, "The reason why nobody cares is that those who hold larger stakes in SP profit from these services through delegation". This sums it up.
If you are going to flag upvote bots with free stake you have been gifted while preaching about upvote bots being abuse, don't bother using them.
Good call :-)
I second that motion commander @themarkymark! That's pretty much contradictory to one's ideology. The bots rep suffer in the long run.
the problem is capital accumulation lol, the literal basis of captialism. It's almost like capitalism fucks everything up or something
Capitalism is just supply and demand, not a scam on itself. Sellers simply make it seem like their services are far more expensive than they need to be, and buyers have no problem with it, since they think if something is expensive, it's good.
capitalism is based on the private ownership of capital (the word is literally fucking in it)
other systems with markets exist lmao
@zombee - how should I take anything you wrote serious, if you buy votes to promote your post?
You used the services yourself, which in your words: are abusing the system. See the irony in there?
Oh and - how about you stop abusing the delegated SP from Steemit by upvoting your own posts with @dmania.
Hilarious and So true!! Now I get what you were trying to say ... Good one @therealwolf!!
The irony is strong on this one. Is showing the bad of bid bots then uses said bots and delegated SP in dmania to upvote himself to the trending page.
You got a 14.87% upvote from @upmyvote courtesy of @zombee!
If you believe this post is spam or abuse, please report it to our Discord #abuse channel.
If you want to support our Curation Digest or our Spam & Abuse prevention efforts, please vote @themarkymark as witness.
Hey, great idea!
So, you'll be giving your profits from the $200 in SBD you spent to rape the pool today, yes? Because powering your moral high horse with the blood of bot profits, smacks a bit of hypocrisy, don't you think?